August 4, 2011 @ 09:52
Why is there a debate where there is no debate?
I'm referring to the aggravating back and forth between those rational people who know its time to shut-down several Toronto libraries and those who are opposed.
The numbers say it all. Toronto has 93 public libraries and 700 schools with each containing their own separate library.
You may have noticed that technology has changed our researching habits quite a bit over the past few years, so the need for going to the local library has diminished somewhat.
It's a given. A no brainer. A slam dunk. Libraries are going the way of the typewriter so its time to update.
In this case update means taking a whole whack of them and shutting them down. It makes complete sense.
But ah, there-in lies the reason for this non-debate. The anti-Ford regime in Toronto has decided to latch onto this issue as a way of getting at the Mayor in their favourite way.
They like to paint him as a fat, stupid, ignorant boor who has no class and very little appreciation for the arts and personal expression. Painting the Mayor anti-library helps the cause.
The amazing thing is, shutting down a bunch of libraries may actually help those who still choose a library for their research and development. They may have to travel a little farther, but if say one/third of Toronto's public libraries are shut-down, it will make the remaining two/thirds that much better.
Having school libraries remain open beyond school hours is another option that is being ignored. To eliminate a lot of the duplication is some areas seems sensible, but it's not a good play for the anti-Ford forces who choose to over-look the sensible if it means attacking the man.
Make no mistake about it, that's what this is about.
And I don't even want to talk about Margaret Atwood. Here blabberings do nothing more than show how out of touch she is.
She claims the Mayor is attacking the arts and literature, when it reality she and the lefty brigade in Toronto are whoring this issue to attack the Mayor.
This issue has nothing to do with kids being able to read books. That will not change with fewer libraries in Toronto. If you really want a book, they'll still be there, you might have to drag your ass a little further, or instead of going to a public library you might find yourself in a school, but rest assured, books will not disappear.
But here's the bottom line, whether we like it or not, books with covers and pages don't play the part in our lives that they used to. Kids get their info and pleasure from different places now and that's made many libraries empty if not obsolete.
Why keep payin' for it?
Category: Politics | Stuff
August 4, 2011 / 10:43
Couldn't agree more. Time for maggy to STFU. Love what the Bob and Doug show are doing. Deeper, wider is my motto for the cuts.
August 4, 2011 / 10:46
God bless you Fred,
Ford is an ignorant boor who could use a salad once in a while.
Between his brother not knowing who Atwood is and him giving a mother and her six year old the finger, Toronto appears to have elected the Trailer Park Boys.
Public libraries may not be of the same ilk they used to be. However, it is a place where the elderly and less fortunate go. The kid with the snazzy iPad certainly will not use it the way his parents did.
Still, most teachers in secondary and higher education do not allow or severely limit the use of online materials. School libraries are extremely limited in the content they provide. Now, should the city come up with an online solution that wouldn't infringe on copywrite laws, perhaps we are cooking with gas, but I suspect that won't be happening anytime soon.
August 4, 2011 / 11:30
By the way, when, if ever, has Rob Ford shown class?
This debate is an unfortunate sideshow. It's true that some libraries should be closed. But that doesn't change the fact that Rob Ford truly is "a fat, stupid, ignorant boor who has no class". He's a sad reflection on an otherwise great city.
August 4, 2011 / 14:28
God Bless Rob Ford. Doing what he was elected to do. The more they bitch about him, the more I know the tough work is getting done.
August 4, 2011 / 16:03
Ford shows more class in his lumpy little finger than all you whining lefties.I love listening to Royson James,Heather Mallick and that feminine goof Christopher Hume squeal about him.
August 4, 2011 / 20:39
I've been around long enough to know that some left leaning mayor will get elected, make some excuse blaming Ford for Toronto's financial trouble and then set about eliminating Toronto services and closing libraries and nary will a word of protest be uttered - in fact, there will likely be praise for the fiscal responsibility. Don't get me started on that woman and her "non" political sideshow trying to enforce that farce of a cel phone law.
August 4, 2011 / 21:52
Closing some libraries in Toronto, I'd argue makes for great debate.
Think about it. Great buildings filled with knowledge with the access to that knowledge available to anyone. Anyone.
Sure, we take them for granted, but they're there.
The thing is that libraries are evolving as does everything else. There are information services (databases) that libraries enroll with which most people could not afford to use on their own computer.
You could close a few, forcing it's patrons to travel further, and reinvest that money into construction of a more impressive building with more services.... but what libraries are they going to close?
One in Regent Park, or one in The Bloor West Village?
I'd argue the property owner who pays the greater taxes holds more influence. Which, ironically, tends to argue that the person who needs greater access to information (in this case especially the internet) is given a greater hardship in getting it.
Things are changing. Computers are almost on a daily level having greater influence on the way we conduct our lives - including the way we gather information. We can pay a couple of bucks and download a paperback on our Kindle..... or we could borrow a copy for essentially nothing. Not a bad idea when the unfortunate truth is that more and more families (and especially those with children) are finding themselves with less money to spend and more bills to pay.
Am I a Leftie? Not really.... I can't stand Margaret Atwood either - she seems a bit full of herself.
Do I like Rob Ford? Not especially. I can appreciate the challenges on his plate. But let's be honest Fred, would the chubbie you have developed for Ford not deflate even a little if he'd thrown the bird to your lovely wife and daughter? He's more Assclown than man.
August 4, 2011 / 22:02
God bless you Tim A.
August 5, 2011 / 00:06
Again with the weight. What does his weight have to do with
Ford is ignorant. So is his brother. The trend now seems to be moving towards people being proud of their ignorance, proud of their stupidity. And the idiocy that is the general public eats it up, and votes for them.
Ford is a liar. He told everyone how he could balanced the budget without cutting any services, just by cutting the so-called "fat." Fred, I thought you were a fan of politicians who do what they say they're going to do, first and foremost? I guess ideology is more important.
Ford has an ideology that he's going to stick to, and it will dominate every decision he makes. There will be no thinking on any issue while he's mayor.
August 5, 2011 / 08:14
When I lived just outside Chicago in the late 80's early 90's everyone used the local high schools for their library. I remember they were open in the evenings and on Saturdays. Worked fine.
August 5, 2011 / 08:28
First of all, school library's are badly lacking in quantity. Secondly, I've always felt there should be a user fee for using the library; $5.00 or $10.00 a year for adults, less for kids. I use the library on a regular bases, not just for books but for music and movie's. I do agree that maybe a few underused branches could be closed though. All branch's have computers with internet access. this is invaluable for those without a computer at home. I would rather see the the city cut funding to parades and other non essential things before they start closing library's.
August 5, 2011 / 08:32
I honestly think that is it boorish behaviour to keep referencing a mans weight without even researching the situation. The services are not being cut in this case they are being condensed. I was unaware that libraries turned into drop in centres for the poor and old. Fellows such as Rob and Tim likely are the same brood that complain about high taxes, but see no solution to the problem, while bitching that when a solution is proposed, it is not in their best interests.
August 5, 2011 / 10:29
As for Mikey, throwing around statements that Ford is a liar without any merit actually proves that you have no backbone, just childish babble. Remember Mikey we as a city elected the man to look out for the entire city's best interests not just yours.
To all these people (Tim A, you know who you are) who are lionizing Attwood as a Canadian icon, Order of Canada author and all round brilliant person. Name me one work of hers that you have read, cover to cover or name three that you can give the title to.
August 5, 2011 / 11:14
With all due respect to Ms. Atwood: her haughty demeanour and elitist attitude are exactly what turns the average Joe away from the arts. What really bothers me is that this library issue is either black or white - no one wants to talk real solutions - it's all hysterical posturing about book burning and closing libraries. Ms Atwood is not helping the situation, but neither are the Fords..
August 5, 2011 / 12:43
"it is a place where the elderly and less fortunate go" - Tim A
Ahh, the poor. By all means we must keep the high wage and pensioned (for automated checkouts and reshelving) staff and management at every branch. For the less fortunate people, of course.
"or one in The Bloor West Village" - Dave O
August 5, 2011 / 12:59
Which one? Swansea branch, Swansea bookmobile, Runnymede, Annette, Jane /Dundas, High Park, Perth /Dupont?
Dave Williams - Ford promised during the election campaign he would not cut services. Now he's going to cut services. What's your definition of liar? Grow a brain.
August 5, 2011 / 17:10
Ha ha Mikey! Your righteous indignation is comical! You're obviously 16 years old. Please put forward a list of politicians who haven't lied.
August 5, 2011 / 19:30
Outside of mikey, who else here has actually purchased a book by Atwood that wasn't forced down our throats during high school?
Damn Cdn content!
August 5, 2011 / 21:32
Well Done CQ!
I think you've missed my point a bit, but I get where you're going...
Parliment Street Branch
Saint James Town Branch
St. Lawrence Branch
City Hall Branch.
All area's of generally equal distance to the Bloor West locations you've mentioned.
We could play tit for tat all day, Buddy.
Mapping library locations on the internet is a great way to try to bolster one's point of view, isn't it CQ?
Bloor West Village is a much larger, more spread out area than Regent Park CQ.
Add that to the density factor. What is the population of the Bloor West village vs. Regent Park areas anyhow?
Swansea have a lot of high rises I never noticed before?
All I'm saying is that it may not be such a bad idea for the people who likely need the services a library can provide to be given equal opportunity to those services. Not more services. Equal services.
Good point on the bookmobile, mind you. Regent Park doesn't seem to have one. I wonder if our combined efforts could get them one.
August 5, 2011 / 22:36
With respect Ms. Atwood (whose books I've read and enjoyed)It is better to close a few of the underutilized branches today in order to save the whole library system tomorrow.
It is a worthwhile service and in today's technological environment (e.g. KOBO) we need to think of more efficient and effective ways to make this service available to all...
August 6, 2011 / 11:59
El Torpedo - so that excuses it? But Rob Ford gets a pass because he's far right.
You're obviously 15 years old, and you smell!
August 6, 2011 / 23:40
Each school has a library, why not combine the public libraries with the school's, we have that here at White Oaks High School in Oakville. Same ends to a means my Grandfather would say, and no duplication of services.
Couldn't find it on line but a recent article i read stated New York City has less libraries than Toronto.
August 7, 2011 / 12:55
Let's set the record straight on the number of libraries. The New York Public Library has 87 branches. But this serves Manhattan, The Bronx and Staten Island only. Queens and Brooklyn have their own library systems, with 62 and 60 branches respectively. That's 209 branches serving 8.1 million people, or one branch for every 38,755 people.
Toronto has 99 branches, serving 2.5 million people, or one branch for every 25,250 people.
So yes, per capita we have more libraries than New York City. Anyone telling you that we have more in total is wrong. Now it's up to you to decide if having a better, more accessible library system is important to you.
Small side note: It took my 5 minutes to figure that out, because I like to know things instead of just going on what people like Rob Ford and Giorgio Mammoliti tell me. The laziness and stupidity of the general population is a big reason why democracy doesn't work very well.
August 8, 2011 / 04:12
Mikey, if you had half a brain, you would take another five minutes and think really hard. Mr. Ford is not eliminating the libraries, he is attempting to cut some of the waste from the system.
August 24, 2011 / 16:07
It is clear to anyone that posts at Canadian Thinker that you actually have no clue how a business is run.
You should really try to read more than a newspaper headline prior to drawing your limited conclusions. The set of words following a title or headline contain what is called "the body" of the story. Maybe if you take the time and have someone read the entire issue, you will be able to comeback and actually have a rebuttal that matters, until then why don't you move out of your mothers basement and attempt to aquire a job.
If you succeed at that and possibly pay some sort of semblance of a tax, feel free to return and attempt to place an intelligent post for a change.
Toronto mayor Rob Ford is an ignoramus. Yes, I'm sure you can relate to his behaviour since you worked obnoxious AM radio for many years. AM radio...the wonderbread voice of the little bourgoise. The squalling screech of the hit parade...the home of shitty shitty music, sold relentlessly to the great unwashed.(actually AM radio has nothing to do with music and everything to do with flogging substandard product) Fred P...the thoughtless are rarely the wordless. Rob Ford is substandard product.