November 20, 2009 / 23:10
Right on. This is war and these pieces of sh.. are not regular soldiers. They are a bunch of cowards who kill our troups with suicide bombers and other cowardly tactics.
In addition it's not our military who tortures them it's their own god damn people.
November 20, 2009 / 23:51
So we're capturing Afganistan terrorists and handing them over to their own government to deal with. They asked for our help I believe. Do with them what you want. I think we did our part. Let the Opposition say what they want.
If Afganistan had the balls to deal with them in the first place our soldiers wouldn't be there to help rid Afganistan of the terrorists, so that people could be free to get an education and improve their lot in life without being splashed with acid and raped.
I'd just as soon have my son come home and leave these assholes to sort it out for themselves. He's over there trying to help them and they're throwing rocks at him (at least it's just rocks).
I know how I'd approach the problem but it may not be politicly correct, it's the 25 cent solution, one to a customer. But we have rules to play by and they don't, some old guy on a bicycle with a pound of explosives and two pounds of ball bearings stuck up his ass can take out our soldiers and no one would cry foul.
Isn't there a few truckloads of agent orange around to get rid of the opium and eliminate the funding for the IEDs?
Unless the Afganistan government steps up and deals with it's problems I think the only thing we should be sending over there is attaboy's, keep up the good work, let us know when you've left the stone age. The Liberals and NDP can take a suck on my ass too.
November 21, 2009 / 00:02
I toned it down a bit:
So we're capturing Afganistan terrorists and handing them over to their own government to deal with. They asked for our help I believe. Do with them what you want. I think we did our part. Let the Opposition say what they want.
If Afganistan had the balls to deal with them in the first place our soldiers wouldn't be there to help rid Afganistan of the terrorists, so that people could be free to get an education and improve their lot in life without being splashed with acid and raped.
I'd just as soon have my son come home and leave these assholes to sort it out for themselves. He's over there trying to help them and they're throwing rocks at him (at least it's just rocks).
I know how I'd approach the problem but it may not be politicly correct, it's the 25 cent solution, one to a customer. But we have rules to play by and they don't, some old guy on a bicycle with a pound of explosives and two pounds of ball bearings stuck up his ass can take out our soldiers and no one would cry foul.
Isn't there a few truckloads of agent orange around to get rid of the opium and eliminate the funding for the IEDs?
Unless the Afganistan government steps up and deals with it's problems I think the only thing we should be sending over there is attaboy's, keep up the good work, let us know when you've left the stone age.
November 21, 2009 / 01:07
This issue basically boils down to what kind of human being you are. Are you better than the people we're fighting against, or aren't you?
I guarantee if it was discovered that we were torturing people while Harper was Prime Minister, you'd all find something to justify that as well.
November 21, 2009 / 05:05
I thought we were fighting to prevent torture and oppression?
November 21, 2009 / 08:40
Romy said, "I thought we were fighting to prevent torture and oppression?"
C'mon, Romy, let's not let logic get in the way of a damn good rant.
November 21, 2009 / 08:54
Is that the best you have Romy?
And what's your solution Dial Twister?
Talk about logic, I think the logic in Freddie's posting has you both frustrated.
Why don't you both go out and find a poppy to piss on.
November 21, 2009 / 11:09
I, and many Canadians had a solution a long time ago, get to fuck out! Don't get me wrong though, I support are troops, but NOT the government keeping them there. Good morning Vietnam!
November 21, 2009 / 13:24
Nice Lowman from Mikeville... yada yada, ya ya I support our troops and so on. Ya sure you do!
Your brave solution is incorrect. What is clear and evident, post 911, is that we now have a mess in the free world because of our inactivity in places like the Middle East where democracy is as foreign to them as a Conservative thought in your mind would be.
All the bright people in the world, such as yourself, fail to realize that those who oppose our freedom like the Taliban want us to leave so their ideology of hate flourishes.
In Joe the Plumber terms for people like me, problems in a neighbours yard usually spills over in to your yard if you aren't proactive.
November 21, 2009 / 23:58
Mississauga, Still doesn't give the right to enter your neighbour's yard to take care of that problem.
Canada is not the world's policeman. Our nation has never had a penchant for colonialism nor have we sought to force our foriegn policy through the use of the military. The situation in Afghanistan is different than those during WWI, WWII, Korea, or the cold war.
Support the troops, but it doesn't mean you have to support the reasoning for sending them to distant shores. And before anyone suggests I'm not sincere, I supported the troops by putting my money where my mouth is. I was a member of the Canadian combat arms for over two decades. How many of you arm chair generals have had a single day with your ass in jeapordy? I didn't think so.
November 22, 2009 / 00:00
Mississauga, Still doesn't give the right to enter your neighbour's yard to take care of that problem.
Canada is not the world's policeman. Our nation has never had a penchant for colonialism nor have we sought to force our foriegn policy through the use of the military. The situation in Afghanistan is different than those during WWI, WWII, Korea, or the cold war.
Support the troops, but it doesn't mean you have to support the reasoning for sending them to distant shores.
And before anyone suggests I'm not sincere, I supported the troops by putting my money where my mouth is. I was a member of the Canadian combat arms for over two decades. How many of you arm chair generals have had a single day with your butts in jeapordy? I didn't think so.
November 22, 2009 / 11:00
I see as of today, the Star has officially declared this a full blown "scandal". I guess adding an unnamed source to bolster the story now allows then to refer to this as the "Torture Scandal". Good grief.
November 22, 2009 / 13:04
I love how Fred thinks he speaks for most Canadians on this topic. Of course when you surround yourself with Conservative lovers it seems like the world supports your ideas. Misery loves company it's not the rest of Canada that thinks your way only the people in your small little world.
November 22, 2009 / 13:17
Hey Tank.. we're waiting.. what do you think Canada should do.
Sell out the soldiers?
November 22, 2009 / 15:23
Build a wall and give the Taliban a piece of the dessert. A wall is easier and cheaper to defend than running into hidden bombs and undergoing sneak attacks.
November 22, 2009 / 17:44
Desert is spelled with one "s".
Dessert is spelled with two.
Always remember, you'd like "two" helpings of dessert but get caught in the desert only once.
November 23, 2009 / 10:38
In a few short months, Mr. Harper has tarnished the reputation of the Canadian Forces which over the past hundreds of years was built on pride and fairness.
The reputation we had, has been eroding away since he took office. If this were any other government, Fred would be all over it. Frank the Tank is right.
November 23, 2009 / 17:54
You're correct Line of Sight I don't have the right to enter a neighbours yard to take care of a problem.
However, if the problem begins to or may spill over into my yard or puts my family in harms way, I have many options. The main one being to call the police so that they can intervene and control the situation which is the legal way. Sometimes the legal way doesn't work so you may have to use any means necessary to protect your family and home.
In a perfect world you have law and order. We have our laws to protect the free world but post 911 we definatly don't have any order. As Canada should always do and hopefully will continue to do, is protect the freedom of its citizens and those of its friends who cannot. If we took your approach of inactivity in WWII we would be speaking German now.
November 23, 2009 / 21:33
Mississauga,
What friends does Canada have in Afghanistan? Why would we want to impose our ways and means onto another country and its people?
I support the tropps. I don't support the mission.
November 24, 2009 / 11:48
The Star is using this torture story as a smokescreen. The real story is the disarray in the Liberal party. On what page did they bury the Mrs. Dion/Facebook "scandal"?
November 24, 2009 / 12:08
Hector - was your post supposed to be a joke?
Under years of Liberal neglect, the Canadian Forces became a laughing stock: aged Sea King helicoptors which could barely fly and often crashed, tanks made of nothing stronger that aluminum foil, and a distinct lack of modern weaponry and ammunition. And you say Harper has tarnished their reputation? On the contrary, he's brought back some much needed pride in our Forces...
November 24, 2009 / 15:38
Thanks Pam for stating my position as well. I love how the Liberals forget how their fearless leader is the one who took us to Afghanistan. No prisoners were ever handed over during his period I guess? Also we are talking about a 18 month period before we put our people in the prisons to ensure the proper treatment. When have you ever seen a government act quicker than 18 months on anything. Chretien still hasnt gotten around to dropping the GST and that was 16 yeears ago!
November 24, 2009 / 16:58
Line of Sight
It's not about imposing our ways on others its about protecting ours. And isn't it great that you and I are entitled to express our free opinions while others cannot. Is that not odd in today's society?
Those very troops that you support live and die for that freedom everyday and that is why I support the mission. I will support any war that will defend our freedoms and those of our children and their children.
November 24, 2009 / 17:05
Mississauga, I fail to see how this defends our freedomes and those of our children here when they are fighting over there. It's like John Stewart making fun of the whole situation saying we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here. I am all for protecting freedoms of people especially Canadians. I support you comment whole heartedly. By you stating you support any war that defends our freedoms and that of our children you clearly aren't talking about the Afghan war because that has nothing to do with our freedoms or that of our children, perhaps you are referring to another war.
November 24, 2009 / 20:23
On the contrary Frank - it is very much our business. If the Taliban seizes power in Afghanistan, likely with the help of Syria and Iran, the West is very much threatened - I know you probably don't give a crap about the Americans, but the Taliban have threatened Canada. If you want the troops to come home, fine, I respect your opinion, but don't say this war has nothing to with Canadians, because it does....
November 24, 2009 / 22:33
Trish PLEASE. The taliban only threatened Canada after we entered into the war. Once again tell me how the west and particularily Canada is threatened???? Pakistan definitely, the US of course Canada? Of course there are off shoots and everyone claims to be part of AlQaeda or the Taliban because people will give them more attention if they do. I think this I'm scared of our shadow practice when it comes to the middle eastern world is unfounded. It wasn't even the Taliban that were after the US it was Al Qaeda. I don't know where you get your facts from either. You need to differentiate between terrorist groups better. Reading the toronto sun doesn't help I can reccommend a DC comic that has more factual writing in it than that.
November 25, 2009 / 00:23
Um, Trish? The Taliban doesn't exactly have a great relationship with Iran.
And how about that transparent Conservative government, eh???? Harper skips three question periods and hasn't taken one question from a reporter. He's so open it hurts.
November 25, 2009 / 09:52
The Taliban were in power in Afghanistan shortly after the Soviets abandoned their invasion, and Canada was never on any threat list. Only after joining the American invasion (because we wouldn't/couldn't go to Iraq) was Canada threatened.
The battles in Afghanistan have nothing to do with Canada, our freedoms, or our way of life. Our soldiers are dieing for what again? To further the foriegn policy of George W. Bush and line the pockets of executives at Haliburton.
November 25, 2009 / 12:55
I'm on side with Frank, Mikey and LOS. I think Canada should pull out of NATO, and disregard the UN. That way we won't have any obligations to anybody. After all, we're perfectly safe where we are - thousands of miles away from all the bad stuff, and we enjoy the convenience of living on top of the USA should we need protection. What do we even need a milatary for? But we should still loudly proclaim our strong opinions on global matters, like a hectoring old auntie who never gets her hands dirty. That's the kind of Canada we can all be proud of, right guys?
November 25, 2009 / 13:08
El Torpedo,
You really believe that? You need your head examined.
This has nothing to do with becoming isolationist. It does have to do with drinking the cool aid Bush told you to. Totally separate issues.
November 25, 2009 / 15:18
Hmmm - maybe I went too far LOS. Okay, forget about pulling out of NATO, but I assume you'll agree, based on your posts, that we should be able to cherry pick which missions we participate in, right? Leave the garbage like Afghanistan to the US, the Brits, the Aussies and Germans, etc. Canada can participate in war games in the Artic or something. But of course, we'll still get to lecture everyone else on human rights violations! Sound better?
November 25, 2009 / 15:41
Line of Sight
This has nothing to with drinking the cool aid or Haliburton or being on a threat list. Wow we're safe because the barbarians forgot to put us on death list. Give me a break!
If memory serves correct, bombings at the World Trade Center happened when Clinton was in power. That isn't to say all was Clinton's fault but that time it failed and our inaction after the fact led us to 911 and the big mess that we have now.
My contention has always been that 'inactive leads to reactive.' Being proactive in other countries makes our country safer and most of the free world as well. This isn't about the Americans either and as Billy Joel sang 'we didn't start the fire, the world's been burning since the world's been turning.
November 25, 2009 / 16:41
I'm not familiar with the Sun, Frank. I hear there's a photo of a half naked woman every day to help drive up circulation. Just your speed, I would imagine.
One of the reasons Canada is in Afghanistan is so women can walk freely in the streets unveiled, go to school, and have a greater chance of surviving pregnancy. Then there is the need for schools that don't teach children to hate, and solutions to the rampant poverty...
Go ahead and give the Taliban the benefit of the doubt. Does the name Neville Chamberlain mean anything to you?
November 25, 2009 / 16:50
Frank, make mine Marvel.
November 25, 2009 / 17:21
Trish
I don't think Tank would know who Chamberlain was without Googling it.
November 25, 2009 / 17:50
That thought did cross my mind.
November 25, 2009 / 20:21
Wow both of you are sooooo right. I had no idea who Chamberlain before today. I'm not giving the Taliban the benefit of the doubt by any means. One of the reasons Canada is in Afghanistan is to free women. Interesting how they pick that one country. There are atrocities going on all over the world towards women and we end up in Afghanistan along with the US hmmmmm. Trish you are right though lots of problems to fix there and there a dozen more countries that are in as dire straits but we don’t' find ourselves there.
I agree with Mississauga though on his quote taken from Billy Joel. Afghanistan has been a hell hole for years and nobody stepped in to help. Now it's our civic duty to be over there to be proactive so that the Taliban don't come here to oppress women.
November 25, 2009 / 23:12
There's a fire burning right here in Canada. How many pillers of Canadian society have you allowed to to be knocked down for all your wanting to export those values to other countries?
Pick and choose missions? We have done since 1867. We didn't go to Aden, Viet Nam, Pakistan, Iraq, Lybia, or Tibet. Check the UN web site to see how many missions we're in and how many we're passed on.
The Chamberlain reference is accurate but narrow. Hitler and Nazi Germany presented a clear and immediate threat to the nations of Europe. The Taliban did not and do not present that same threat. Most of you continue to confuse the Taliban with Al-Qaeda.
Protecting minority rights? We have to get that job done right here in Canada before we can go about lecturing and jack-booting the restof the world.
November 26, 2009 / 10:34
Line of Sight
Didn't the Taliban allow Al-Qaeda to use Afghanistan for their famous Terrorist Camps? What's the difference between their ideologies? Tank that's a rhetorical question!
You're right, we must pick and choose our battles and this is one that Canada must follow through on. Imagine during WWI or WWII, how the world would be today if our leaders decided that 'we must fix our own problems before we aid the fight against tyranny.' Thank God the great leaders of the west had the foresight to join in.
Failing to see that the Taliban/Al-Qaeda are a major threat to world peace is troubling. Chamberlain failed to see it and so did the French as they allowed the Nazi tanks to roll in and fly their flag within days of the invasion.
Here's a message to all of the bleeding heart Liberals who are thoroughly enjoying the bullshit focus that's been placed upon the Harper government this week.
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