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Let's Do It For The Hammer

May 13, 2009 @ 22:39

I have always been vehemently opposed to taxpayer money being used to finance professional sport but this situation is different.

Word is that Jim Basillie, who put up a quarter billion dollars of his own money to buy the Phoenix Coyotes, would like the federal and provincial governments to provide the 130 million dollars needed to upgrade Copps Coliseum.

Believe me, if this was Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver I'd be dead against it. I wouldn't like it if it were Edmonton, Calgary or Winnipeg either.

Why should taxpayers pay for what amounts to the factory for a multi-million dollar business - especially a place for grown men to play a kids game at exorbitant amounts of money.

But again, this situation is different. This is Hamilton and if any city in Canada deserves a break, it's Steeltown, a struggling city with fabulous people that's in the midst of an industrial revolution. As the steel industry dies in Hamilton, this feisty little city is scrambling to re-invent itself and re-furbishing Copps to NHL standards is something that would help immensely.

Yes, Jim Balsillie is a billionaire and he could probably afford to re-furbish Copps himself, but he's already done his part by swooping in and grabbing a team in a league that otherwise wouldn't dream of coming to Hamilton.

A re-furbished Copps Coliseum, with at least 41 NHL dates a year would do wonders for downtown Hamilton.

Up until now, Copps has been somewhat of a lame duck because although it was built with the NHL in mind, it got screwed over time and time again and there's never been a consistent bona fide attraction operating out of the building.

An NHL team would be different. It would give the city a new attitude and I'm sure restaurants, bars and condos would be soon to follow.

In a lot of cases, most cases in fact, tax money being thrown at pro sports is a bad deal for the taxpayer, but in Hamilton it would be a clear cut investment. But most of all, it would be a reward for the great people of Hamilton, hard working and proud people who've played second fiddle to Toronto and the surrounding area far too long.

They've been slapped around by the NHL far too many times as well, so if Balsillie manages to pull this off and actually win control of the Coyotes it's the least we could do for the Hammer.

They deserve it.

Category: Politics | Sports

Permalink Discuss

199 Responses to "Let's Do It For The Hammer"


Mike from Lowville
May 14, 2009 / 09:34

Freddie, Victor (Vic) Copps would be proud of you. (seeing you've been a Hammer basher not so long ago) Does that mean Sheila Copps is now your friend?


Paul
May 14, 2009 / 09:42

Frederick, I concur with your analysis.


Curtis
May 14, 2009 / 09:43

I agree Freddie, Getting an NHL team in the Hammer would be great for the city, They could use some good news. But what to name the team? My vote goes the Hamilton Leather Cheerios......ya know, with the city being Canada's asshole it seems to fit.....


Clyde
May 14, 2009 / 09:59

Toronto is close to Canada's a-hole city and it's just not the Tamil Terror we've experienced.


Argie
May 14, 2009 / 10:02

Fred: The fact that Mike from Lowville agrees with you should tell you something! It would be nice to see Hamilton get the Coyotes but not at taxpayers' expense. If there is not enough corporate or fan support, they shouldn't have a team.

Vaughan has the dough to do WITHOUT taxpayers' funds.


Pauly Walnuts
May 14, 2009 / 10:36

I agree with you Fred as long as the government (local or otherwise) is the owner of Copps Colliseum and they get revenue from the joint after it is upgraded. It would not be so much as a hand out, but an investment with guaranteed returns.


Sammi
May 14, 2009 / 10:43

As much as I would love to agree with you....I can't.

If Hamilton gets the team and gets taxpayer's money...why shouldn't any other sports team in Canada get the same?? It would set a dangerous precedent.


Mike from Lowville
May 14, 2009 / 10:59

Yeah Sammi, if Hamilton got an NHL Team, Toronto would want one too. I know, I know it's old but, I couldn't resist.


Argie
May 14, 2009 / 11:08

Pauley: Balsillie is a smart guy. I would rather have him run the team as opposoe to the city. God knows whenever govt tries to run anything, it loses money - guaranteed.

I'm sure Balsillie can garner the corp support (i.e. naming rights for the arena, corp boxes, etc). And like I wrote earlier, if he can't get the support, then the city doesn't deserve a team.

And yes I would like to see a REAL NHL team here in Toronto.


Horonymous
May 14, 2009 / 12:13

Normally I don't support tax payers money to support professional sport franchises owned by millionaires paying other millionaires. But since we're throwing money down the GM hole we can toss a little to Hamilton.

The new team could be called Hamilton Doughnuts or the GTA Rim Jobs.


Brenda's Boyfriend from Cambridge
May 14, 2009 / 13:52

I think we should start calling him Jim Ballsy for the way he's making Bettman look like an ass.


Mikey
May 14, 2009 / 14:18

Doesn't anyone see the socialist conspiracy here? Once you get used to government to paying for your sports teams and arenas, what else won't you mind them paying for?? Where will it end?????


Freeway
May 14, 2009 / 14:27

Hamiltonians are GOOD people but Ontario doesn't need another SHITY hockey team.

If he had any smarts, he'd go to Winnipeg or Quebec City.


Mike from Lowville
May 14, 2009 / 14:32

Mikey, as with anything in the business world it's Return On Investment! No matter, public or private, it's all the same. ROI could be in tax revenues or stock price escalation or providing jobs. As long as there's a bang for the buck invested, it's worth investing in.


Big A from Burlington
May 14, 2009 / 16:20

I say bring it on.. would love to see this happen. Unfortunately, I think that Balsillie's aggressive tactics will ensure that there is never a team in Hamilton. He is pissing off too many people in the NHL (Bettman and the governors) for them to approve him as an owner and by signing a lease agreement with the City of Hamilton, he is ensuring that no one else is able to put a team in Copps.


Ralph
May 14, 2009 / 17:20

Burlington Blackberries.
Team would be all thumbs.


Contrarian
May 14, 2009 / 19:01

Wow. The hypocricy and economic illiteracy on this site is staggering. So many of you like to portray yourselves as fiscally responsible economic conservatives. Always railing against wasteful spending. You're all full of it.

The mere suggestion that taxpayer money may be spent in this fashion would have any truly fiscally responsible person up in arms. But no, the consensus here is that this would be a good thing. You are no different than every other special interest group that you rail against when public funds are spent. Hypocrites.

While I'm at it, the same goes for the harmonization of the GST. Because the McGuinty government did it you were all screaming. Never mind the fact that Jim Flaherty had been begging for this to happen for years and any economist worth his salt says this is a good thing.

And you all continue to shill for Steven Harper whose egregious cutting of the GST instead of personal income taxes is without a doubt the most fiscally irresponsible move in my lifetime. No true fiscal conservative would even attempt to defend that move. It was a crass move designed to win the votes of economic illiterates.

But you all go on pretending to be fiscally responsible folks opposed to wasteful spending. Whatever gets you through the day.


Gene
May 14, 2009 / 19:57

Hey Contrarian.. over think it why don't you!
Wow.. do the words blow it out your ass mean anything?


Contrarian
May 14, 2009 / 20:29

Hey Gene - Your comments did not surprise me but I did find them rather amusing.

I was not surprised that someone would accuse me of over thinking it. I cobbled my thoughts together in about 30 seconds to tell you the truth. But any evidence of actual thinking is over thinking things for many of the posters here.

But I was also amused. That's because you are criticizing someone posting on a sight named "Canadian Thinker" for, wait for it, thinking. Well played.


Right Uppercut
May 14, 2009 / 20:45

Oh Yay. Socialism comes to sports, now.

To a city that was DUMB ENOUGH to RE-ELECT Sheila Copps! If you recall, Andy Donato's cartoon in the Sun summed it up nicely... the one with Hamiltonians walking about with ass-cheeks as their heads. "Buttheads," indeed.

Moving Phoenix to Hamilton is causing the city known as the hairy buttocks of Ontario to sweat like Geo. Smitherman's crack on his "honeymoon," but the idea of dinging the taxpayer for over 100 million in renos for Copps Coliseum should should be ejected from the game.

Remember the 600 million dollar Skydome fiasco? Then, Ted Rogers bought it for a mere 25 million a few years ago! Taxpayers lose 575 mill. Thanks, David Peterson and your rat-pack of liberals.

No more tax-dollars to finance billionaire owners and millionaire player's sports playpens.


IanS
May 14, 2009 / 21:59

Contrarian, While you're doing your thinking try thinking about staying on topic.

As far as the topic goes, I THINK a lot of people have the wrong idea of what the scenerio is. Balsillie is spending his own money on buying the team. He wan't the city (which already owns Copps) to refurbish the building. He'll be leasing the property and running the team, not the city. Let's have SOME thinking going on before posting, eh.


Contrarian
May 14, 2009 / 23:44

Ian S

With all due respect, how can you possibly accuse me of being off topic? Fred defined the topic in his first two paragraphs. Here they are:

I have always been vehemently opposed to taxpayer money being used to finance professional sport but this situation is different.

Word is that Jim Basillie, who put up a quarter billion dollars of his own money to buy the Phoenix Coyotes, would like the federal and provincial governments to provide the 130 million dollars needed to upgrade Copps Coliseum.

The topic is clearly the use of taxpayer funds. More broadly that would also encompass tax policy generally (both the collection and disbursement of tax funds).

Subsumed within your post is a very legitimate point; namely it is still unclear exactly what (if anything) Balsillie is looking for. But those specifics were not the topic at all. The topic, hypothetical though it may have been when Fred posted, was whether taxpayer money should be used in this endeavour. My post addressed that issue head on and went on to address very closely related subjects. It's not as if I started yapping about Comrade Miller or the Tamil protests.

Care to actually address my points?


Rick C in Oakville
May 14, 2009 / 23:49

Hamilton is a great sports town, and it is gritty enough to dig in and support a hockey team. Winnipeg had it's chance and so did Quebec City, time to let Hammertown have a kick at the can.
Go Jim Go!!!


Mike from Lowville
May 15, 2009 / 10:46

Contrarian, first off, did you just complete economics 101? What difference does political slant have to do with economics. Most of the world's top THINKING economists, (past and present) have been anything BUT Conservative! Like I stated above:
As with anything in the business world it's Return On Investment! No matter, public or private, it's all the same. ROI could be in tax revenues or stock price escalation or providing jobs. As long as there's a bang for the buck invested, it's worth investing in. Should I give you more examples or do you get it, YET!


Contrarian
May 15, 2009 / 13:39

Mike from Lowville

As Fred put it:

Why should taxpayers pay for what amounts to the factory for a multi-million dollar business - especially a place for grown men to play a kids game at exorbitant amounts of money.

Even he is implicitly admitting this is not a good economic move although he goes on to make a half-hearted effort to defend it in such terms.

As for ROI, there is none when it comes to professional sports teams. Money spent on a Hamilton NHL team is just money that would otherwise be spent on movies, dinners, theatre, the AHL team etc. Read some Andrew Zimbalist if you want to acquaint yourself with the crock that is the "pro sports teams bring tons of money into the local economy" argument.

As for the "all economists are liberal" canard, explain why Flaherty thinks harmonization is good and find me one conservative economist/analyst outside the Conservative party who thinks the GST cut (as opposed to cutting personal income taxes) was a prudent move.


IanS
May 15, 2009 / 16:26

Contrarian, OK, when you stray from public money supporting private enterprise (specifically municipal money toward bettering Copps Colliseum) into GST harmonization by the provincial gov't and then into federal cutting of the GST, AND FINALLY chastising those who support the fed GST cut (whew), yes that is straying off topic, regardless of the hair-thin thread with which you choose to tie them together.

But if you must, then yes, the GST cut was the proper move as it is directly related to spending as opposed to income tax breaks which would mostly go to increased savings. An income tax break to those earning in the lower brackets will be a miniscule dollar amount and would be too easily absorbed to be an effective insentive to spend. A cut in the GST is directed exactly at those with the incomes to spend; the ability to spend. They would spend anyway and now they can make that extra purchase or two. And spending is what our economy needs now. Interest rate reductions don't even have the same incentive right now because of the lack of moneterization and un-willingness of institutions to lend.

I am in no way trying to tie this together with the situation in Hamilton and with the NHL.


IanS
May 15, 2009 / 18:02

Contrarian, OK, when you stray from public money supporting private enterprise (specifically municipal money toward bettering Copps Colliseum) into GST harmonization by the provincial government and then into federal cutting of the GST, AND FINALLY chastising those who support the fed GST cut (whew), yes that is straying off topic, regardless of the hair-thin thread with which you choose to tie them together.

But if you must, then yes, the GST cut was the proper move as it is directly related to spending as opposed to income tax breaks which would mostly go to increased savings. An income tax break to those earning in the lower brackets will be a miniscule dollar amount and would be too easily absorbed to be an effective insentive to spend. A cut in the GST is directed exactly at those with the incomes to spend; the ability to spend. They would spend anyway and now they can make that extra purchase or two. And spending is what our economy needs now. Interest rate reductions don't even have the same incentive right now because of the lack of moneterization and un-willingness of institutions to lend.

I am in no way trying to tie this together with the situation in Hamilton and with the NHL.


IanS
May 15, 2009 / 18:02

Contrarian, OK, when you stray from public money supporting private enterprise (specifically municipal money toward bettering Copps Colliseum) into GST harmonization by the provincial government and then into federal cutting of the GST, AND FINALLY chastising those who support the fed GST cut (whew), yes that is straying off topic, regardless of the hair-thin thread with which you choose to tie them together.


IanS
May 15, 2009 / 19:07

Contrarian, But if you must, then yes, the GST cut was the proper move as it is directly related to spending as opposed to income tax breaks which would mostly go to increased savings. An income tax break to those earning in the lower brackets will be a miniscule dollar amount and would be too easily absorbed to be an effective insentive to spend. A cut in the GST is directed exactly at those with the incomes to spend; the ability to spend. They would spend anyway and now they can make that extra purchase or two. And spending is what our economy needs now. Interest rate reductions don't even have the same incentive right now because of the lack of moneterization and un-willingness of institutions to lend.


IanS
May 15, 2009 / 19:15

But if you must, then yes, the GST cut was the proper move as it is directly related to spending as opposed to income tax breaks which would mostly go to increased savings. An income tax break to those earning in the lower brackets will be a miniscule dollar amount and would be too easily absorbed to be an effective insentive to spend. A cut in the GST is directed exactly at those with the incomes to spend; the ability to spend. They would spend anyway and now they can make that extra purchase or two. And spending is what our economy needs now.


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