December 8, 2008 / 18:42
Is he stupid or is it just flat out gall???
December 8, 2008 / 18:50
Just another socalist who think they have an entitlement to power thru revolution,and insurrection `a la Castro, Mugabe,etc etc..........
December 8, 2008 / 20:40
Rae is an absolute mental midget. I wonder if he even noticed his contradiction.
So get this, now that Ignatief is ready to take over the reins, another snag. Honestly... anybody that thinks the Liberal party is ready to run the country is sniffing glue. They can't even get their own party in order let alone run a country. They're in debt up to their eyeballs, they can't decide on a leader, and their policies of late have been pie in the sky (motioning to in the Green Shaft banner in the corner). Even liberal party members agree they need to rebuild the party from the ground up... so go and do it. This squabling is embarassing... reminicent of the Aliance Party from years back.
December 9, 2008 / 03:26
Freddie, I think you should stick to sports, because you're well out of your league when trying to dispense political insight.
You're constantly referring to this coalition as if a coup d'etat has taken place in Ottawa completely with mob and pitchforks raised high.
What you and many others are failing to realize is that coalition governments have been pretty commonplace. In fact, it was a coalition government that led to the formation of this country and a coalition that helped see us through the turbulent times of World War I.
In addition to federal coalition governments, several provinces have had coalitions as well. The most recent were in Saskatchewan (1999) and Ontario (1985).
Beyond that, coalition governments are found all across the world. Notably in Ireland and Germany.
A little research should dispel people's irrational fears of a coalition. Unless, of course, they are more interested in making strawman arguments.
December 9, 2008 / 08:09
Coalition governments have been rare in Canada. Especially at the federal level. And just because other countries do it doesn't mean that we should. Besides, coalition governments are historically unstable. Look at Belgium. The problem there is there are no "national" parties within the coalition. What do we have here? A Quebec only party propping up the proposed coalition. Doomed to failure.
Bob Rae online at the Globe & Mail yesterday...
"Daniel Lahey from Montreal: Given that Stephane Dion has been by far one of the least effective leaders of the Liberal Party since its founding, do you regret your decision to free your supporters at the last Liberal convention as opposed to placing your support behind Michael Ignatieff?
Bob Rae: I made that decision because I don’t like backroom deals."
Speaks volumes.
December 9, 2008 / 09:04
I'm not even sure I know what Fred's point is since the situations are completely different. There's a big difference between a legally formed coalition government and a party selecting a leader internally.
And while I'm not understanding what people's points are...
"Coalition governments are historically unstable. Look at Belgium. The problem there is there are no "national" parties within the coalition."
As opposed to the 2 "national" parties that would be forming this one. when you say that the coalition is doomed to failure you may well be right, but for the wrong reason. If it fails it will be entirely the fault of those putting it together. the Liberals are in no position to organize anything. They can't get their own house in order, how can they be expected to survive while working with other parties who while similar, do at times have differing opinions?
Please, stop with the scare tactics and untruths.
I started reading this blog for the insights on radio. I understand I can't get as much of that anymore since Freddie's back in the industry, but I know Freddie's more creative than having to resort to sensless babble. I'd be calling it that even if I was solidly in support of one particular party.
December 9, 2008 / 09:26
Hi Steve.. so what you're saying is, you're afraid of the coaltion going to a vote too.
And talk about untruths, you know very well its three parties that put the coalition together.
I couldn't have happened without the Bloq.
December 9, 2008 / 10:29
Bob Rae is showing exactly who he is. He is NDP all the way.
This coalition was actually a good idea from a voter's perspective. I now know who I would vote for and who I would never vote for.
December 9, 2008 / 10:43
Steve, The "2 national parties that would be forming this one" would not be forming a government without the support of the separtist Bloc; a party elected in only one province and who's sole purpose is the destruction of Canada. As soon as either the NDP or Liberals put forward legislation for the benefit of Canada as a whole the Bloc would withdraw it's support of the coalition and the government would fall.
December 9, 2008 / 11:24
Wow, this hypocrisy is astounding, all because of blind faith in Stephen Harper.
If one person can admit that Harper tried this with the Bloc and NDP in 2004, that's step one. If that person can then admit that Harper's move in 2004 was just as full of treason, deceit, backroom deals, and he was Canada's most unpatriotic person for signing a letter with the leader of the Bloc, then we can have a rational discussion.
Following one man like this is extremely dangerous, and it makes me wonder what kind of hold Harper has on his followers. If he murdered someone, would you still support him? If he made the Conservative party the only legal political party in Canada, would you say that was a smart move? If he shut down the government so that he could stay in power, would you....oh, wait.
December 9, 2008 / 11:29
Right now Bob Rae is probably kicking himself for not joining the Conservative Party in his hunt for power.As for being NDP, I dont think so. He's just another unctuous little political whore, the perfect Liberal
December 9, 2008 / 11:32
You know what would be awesome? If anybody had bothered to read what I actually wrote. Did I say I liked the coalition? No. Did I say I was in favour of the Bloc? That would also be no. what I said was that there were 2 national parties involved rather than the 0 claimed in a previous comment. As for being afraid to have things put to a vote, that would also be no. I would be disappointed if Harper came out of it with a majority because I haven't supported him since I first heard his name years ago and I would be disappointed that a coalition wasn't given a chance to pass or fail, but afraid isn't the word I'd use. Thanks also for not even mentioning the part where I criticized the Liberals. Says more than I ever could about people's will to hear each side and engage in an open and useful dialogue.
December 9, 2008 / 11:43
Do you think this group of Liberals could organize a one car parade?
They have a long way to go before they'll have my confidence that they can govern.
December 9, 2008 / 11:46
I love the name calling, just adds so much weight to your argument. What do you think, Harper has the best interests of the country in mind and not his own personal power whenever he makes a move? I mean I know Harper can do no wrong, but the double standard is quite comical.
December 9, 2008 / 12:11
Mikey, if there was a better alternative to Harper I'd consider it.
In light of what is currently available, there is no way I can support a socialist party run by a plotting, power hungry weasel who's ideas and plans would bankrupt this county many times over. Neither can I support a party who's run by a bookworm, who if difficult to understand, has no leadership qualities to speak of; a party which is thin on convincing, realistic policies; a party that is flirting with bankruptcy; a party that still wants to run things like they did when Trudeau was around. Unfortunately times have moved on but the Liberal Party hasn't evolved. As for the coalition with or without the Bloc, I can't support a government run by these two parties. Throw the Bloc into the mix, it makes it that much easier to say no.
Does Harper like power. No more or less than any other political leader. If he didn't why would he be there?
Does Harper has the best interests of the country in mind?... for the most part I think yes, because the things he wants to do is what I want him to do. What is the alternative? The other 2 clowns? The bumbling Liberal Party? Like I said earlier... when the Liberal Party gets its head out of its @ss, then we can have a debate on the issues. Like Harper or not he's the only option I have.
December 9, 2008 / 12:15
Mikey - you like to contemplate that Stephen Harper might commit murder. Well, he hasn't yet and as far as I go back, only a Liberal, Jean Chretien, has come close. Remember that time Chretien (a Liberal, remember) grabbed a protester in a headlock and proceeded to crush the guy's face with his hands....?
December 9, 2008 / 12:53
Oh Paula....my point was how fanatical people are about Harper because of the cult of personality surrounding him. My apologies if I was being too subtle before.
Pauly - thank you. Would you have been in favour of a Conservative-led coalition in 2004 if things came to that?
December 9, 2008 / 12:58
Hey Mikey - As usual, you are the pot calling the kettle black. Do you think Layton, Dion and Duceppe had the best interests of canadians in mind when they formed the coalition? Not bloody likely. Each had a vision of his own personal power.
December 9, 2008 / 13:16
Mikey, as usual, you're spending too much company time on this blog.
Go back to work.
December 9, 2008 / 13:52
I never said they didn't like power. Every leader except for Duceppe believes he's doing things in the best interests of Canada, because they believe they will make the best leader. It's my belief that part of Stephen Harper's ultimate vision for Canada is an extremely weakened opposition, or even better being totally unopposed. Harper doesn't share my view that for a democracy to be truly successful you need strong opposition and accountability. It's why he tried to weaken the other parties, and it's why he rarely explains himself to the media.
Bob - I love you too! We should get together, I'm free now!
December 9, 2008 / 13:55
Sory Mikey, I had a better offer. Can I have a rain check?
December 9, 2008 / 13:59
Mikey, Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Harper has a cult of personality? The main shots taken at him was that he was too stiff and impersonal. Not the leading characteristics of a cult of personality.
December 9, 2008 / 14:15
Maybe he is stiff and impersonal, but there's a reason people so rabidly defend every move he makes.
Sorry, but if you don't find just a little bit chilling the removal of any pictures of past PM's from the government lobby, all replaced by pictures of Harper, then in my opinion there's something wrong. He's already started trying to muzzle the artists, and all those smiling pictures of him in the intro to his televised address was creepy. Just too many things to ignore....
December 9, 2008 / 14:16
Bob - I'm free anytime, as you can tell ;)
December 9, 2008 / 14:38
Mikey... No. Not because I'm agaisnt a coalition but becaue I'm against a coalition with the NDP or with the Bloc.
And frankly I wouldn't be against a Liberal NDP coalition but not under the circumstances that the recent one was hashed out under.. namely Layton doing it for his benefit, it being led by Dion, with the support of the Bloc and not blowing $30 billion for the sake of blowing $30 billion.
December 9, 2008 / 15:17
Thanks Pauly. I was not thrilled with the idea of Dion as PM myself, I think he should have resigned immediately after the election, but it was the only alternative to Harper at the time. Can't wait to see where we'll be come January 26.
December 9, 2008 / 15:19
My guess? Politically exactly where we are right now, but otherwise just colder.
December 9, 2008 / 15:27
It is official, Iggy Pop is the new leader.
Let's see, he was FOR the war in Iraq, how are the Liberal spin doctors going to play this one, can't wait.
December 9, 2008 / 15:42
We've been around the block (no pun intended) enough on this one. There's nothing we can say to make Mikey see the light and there's nothing he can say to change our minds.
Time will tell and it'll be an interesting time until the end of January, with, I'm sure, lots more to consider between now and then.
December 9, 2008 / 15:57
Look for the coalition to be dismantled by the the new liberal leader. There goes Jacko's cabinet seat...
December 9, 2008 / 17:01
Dave - Yes, Ignatieff was for the war in Iraq. He has since come out and stated that he was mistaken. There'll be a lot to read and learn about Ignatieff over the next six weeks, but I can say that I respect someone who has the integrity to admit when they're wrong.
December 9, 2008 / 17:08
Mikey, just for your info, I am on my 2nd coffee break for the day. BTW you do have a good sense of humour (no sarcasm here).
My forecast for Jan. 26. The coalition is dead, Harper will be smart enough this time and present a budget with enough goodies for Iggi to approve. The two numb nuts (Jacko and Whacko Gill)will vote against it but won't have enough votes and therefore the budget will pass.
Mikey, any other ideas????
December 9, 2008 / 17:42
Thanks Bob, it's good to take time out every once in a while from screaming at each other.
I definitely think now that Ignatieff is taking over the Liberals the chances of a coalition are slim to none. It still all depends on the content of the budget, but I hope Harper's learned his lesson and will govern like he has a minority. If the Liberals support the budget the Bloc and NDP will vote against it, just to say they didn't support the Conservatives. I'm very intereested to see how Ignatieff performs as a politician now that the spotlight will be squarely on him.
My guess? Better than Dion. Start the bar low and build up from there.
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