November 30, 2008 / 14:19
Fred, we disagree on Harper, but your assessment is 100% correct. The alternative gives me sleepless nights.
November 30, 2008 / 14:34
Well Fred, I'd love to see the end of Harper. And I am centre-right, sometimes extremely hard core right wing
This government is useless when it comes to taking care of the countries fiscal issues. The past 2 years, they've increased spending 15% AND knocked back the GST 2 points. Doesn't take a economics 101 dropout to realize that less money coming in and higher costs = deficit. IN FACT Patterson, Harper is probably thankful he's got an EXCUSE to do what he had to do..because he's messed up.
Weeks ago, Harper said everything was going to be all right...oblivious to what was happening around the globe. Does he expect us to be immune from the crumbling stock markets around the globe (including our own, down by something like 40% from it's peak).
As for your concerns with Mr Duceppe, Harper's approached him several times in the last government to push through bills. I suppose you have no issue with Harper working with Duceppe at that time, do you?
PS Fred. Harper didn't do this to save the country. He did this to save his own ass. Nothing more, nothing less. He realized that oh oh, his adversaries WERE serious & they'll topple his government. Harper had no problem voting for the 1.99 subsidy when he was in opposition, but he decided to remove it..simply to bankrupt the opposition. I don't like Dion or Layton, but I do believe in the democracy. I also don't like how Harper "drops" Candidates into ridings rather than letting the local people vote
As for the Bloc, well I respect the guy. He was elected by his people and he does what they elected him to. He guards the rights of Quebec. Quebec and Alberta both share an independent streak. One wants to leave for culture. The other for the rights to their resources. Duceppe..is doing what politicians should do in a democracy. Of course, how could you understand that when you're just a typical Easterner that believes you live in the "centre of the universe".
November 30, 2008 / 14:53
I thought Harper move was genius. Cut off federal funds to his opponents & hi own party and stave them out. I kind of agree the parties should either accept the federal money and no private or vice versa. No double dipping.
Steve is shrewd.
I
I'm surprised he blinked. Not a fan of the Conservatives (Reform) but you can't be impressed with Harper and his tactics.
Libs and NDP would be fools to form a government they'll get defeated and the Conservatives will get re elected with a majority,.
hope the government be as nice to the CBC when announce the cuts to our public broadcaster
November 30, 2008 / 16:25
This is total bullshit. We did not have an election a few months ago, to have a bunch of arrogant pricks bully their way into power. This is a very dark time in Canada. If these three parties succeed in overthrowing Harper, not only has democracy gone out the window, but so has our dignity.
We've gone from democracy to dictatorship.
November 30, 2008 / 21:16
So Fred, It was ok for Harper to conspire with the other parties because you think he's a good leader but it isn't ok for the current parties to do that. Bravo way to be hypocritcal and ignorant at the same time.
Secondly lets truly look at the conservatives as a party. They are the only right wing party in Canada. As there are three left wing parties if you were to say join them together like the alliance and conservatives did you would have a running liberal majority all the time. Lets face it you say the other parties are made up of loonies, but everytime a Harper cronie opens his/her mouth you get to see what a bunch of racist red necks they are.
Your best friend Harper said don't worry Canada is well protected recession isn't in our vocabulary. Well him and that goof he calls a finance minister were very right about that weren't they. You continue to say nothing about this as well. Not to mention the fact it's about time the other parties started throwing their weight around like the bully harper has.
Funny how you defend him killing subsidies to other parties and only use the bloq as your means of proving a point. Considering the fact that it's a move by harper to stem any form of political competition you show how short sighted you are.
Party Pooper lets remember that Harper called this election knowing the coming economic storm. Fred continually kisses his arse stating how smart and calm he is. Is it so hard to conceive that Harper would break his fixed election promise 2 months before the stock market bottoms out. I will agree with Fred and state that it was a smart move, because had he waited to have the election in January nobody would have wanted to see that blue piece of toilet paper called the conservatives running the country.
Agreeing with Irvine, Harper knows he'd be toast if he didn't back down from his idea and actually come forward with a fiscal plan that makes sense. Good on the other parties for throwing their wait around. Always funny how we see after school specials about what happens when people band together against a bully. The bully runs off with his/her tail between their legs. This time though he's running off with Flaherty between his legs.
November 30, 2008 / 22:29
Hey Frank, get you head out of the tank. Your typically liberal blatherings are tedious.
Freddie makes sense, but you and you like will never see through your Conservative hatred.
You'll get everything you deserve.
November 30, 2008 / 22:31
Says it all "Frank" can't even spell his own name.
November 30, 2008 / 23:18
Harper F'd this one up big time. He made a plan, he should have stuck with it. He should have called the oppositions bluff... Let Dion become PM... let the rag tag bunch try and run the country, and when the wheels come flying off, we go to another election and the only ones looking clean are the Conservatives.
Now it looks like a a bunch of monkey's trying to F a football up on parliament hill and nobody is the exception.
What a bunch of idiots.
November 30, 2008 / 23:28
Hey Frank, FYI the Bloc is right wing. The split form the conservatives in the 90's because Mulroney and Bouchard had a falling out.
And if you're maybe referring to the Green Pary as the 3rd party on the left, they haven't one 1 seat... EVER... so they're in the same boat as the marxist leninist party, the communist party of canada.
December 1, 2008 / 00:01
Bravo Paul Walnuts. Other than being an idiot, perhaps you should realize that I was referring to the liberals NDP and green party not block as parties that if joined together would obliterate the Conservatives. The only thing conservatives should do is thank the green party, because if there wasn't one the liberals would have garnered many more seats than the Conservatives. Your reference to the green party being the same boat as the communist party and leninist is laughable. Neither party comes close to the votes that the green party does, but thanks for coming out.
Gene: What is it that I deserve, because I think Harper and his team are bunch of bullies? Thanks for saying something original.
December 1, 2008 / 08:53
I can't believe some of the stuff I've read on this page. Misguided for the most part; uninformed and ignorant for the other part.
Like it or not, we had an election, and the Canadian people elected a minority Conservative government. That's our system so live with it.
This isn't about what Harper has done or if the Bloc is left or right wing or if Leyton is a half-wit or a complete idiot. It is about the highjacking of the Canadian Parliament. If the opposition doesn't like a bill, then vote against it and force a confidence vote. Should that go against the government then Harper should ask the GG to disolve parliament and we'll back to the polls.
For the opposition to approach the GG and say they can form a coalition is a contradiction to the meaning of democracy. Put the decision back in the hands for the voters and not in a power hungry group.
I would expect this devious move from Lefty Leyton, and there's some evidence that he was planning this shortly after the election.
Don't fool yourselves. Going cap-in-hand to the Bloq and asking them to support a bill is VERY different that entering into a power sharing agreement with them. I guess the NDP and Liberals have no problem sleeping at night when they make deals with a party whose sole effort is the dissolution of Canada.
December 1, 2008 / 08:53
I can't believe some of the stuff I've read on this page. Misguided for the most part; uninformed and ignorant for the other part.
Like it or not, we had an election, and the Canadian people elected a minority Conservative government. That's our system so live with it.
This isn't about what Harper has done or if the Bloc is left or right wing or if Leyton is a half-wit or a complete idiot. It is about the highjacking of the Canadian Parliament. If the opposition doesn't like a bill, then vote against it and force a confidence vote. Should that go against the government then Harper should ask the GG to disolve parliament and we'll back to the polls.
For the opposition to approach the GG and say they can form a coalition is a contradiction to the meaning of democracy. Put the decision back in the hands for the voters and not in a power hungry group.
I would expect this devious move from Lefty Leyton, and there's some evidence that he was planning this shortly after the election.
Don't fool yourselves. Going cap-in-hand to the Bloq and asking them to support a bill is VERY different than entering into a power sharing agreement with them. I guess the NDP and Liberals have no problem sleeping at night when they make deals with a party whose sole effort is the dissolution of Canada.
December 1, 2008 / 09:01
Wow Frank, great interpersonal skills. You're my hero.
I aspire to be like Frank. Sitting in the basement of my grandparents house in women's underwear, logging eagerly on to Freddie's website so I can call people idiots and tell them to be original. I bet it would really be empowering.
BTW Tanktop, the conservatives had the popular vote, so no the conservatives wouldn't have been "obliterated" as you say. It would have been close, and the Liberals may have won, but not "obliterated". Only in your dreamland basement world.
OK enough with Frank the chuckle head.
Does anybody regardless of your political leanings actually think this whole game is going to get us anywhere? Does anyone agree with me that we seriously need a higher calibre of politician in Canada? This is nothign more than over inflated egos.
December 1, 2008 / 10:06
Stupid is as stupid does.
The Conservatives tried to pull a fast one and the opposition parties called their bluff. If a coalition government is what we get, that's what we deserve for electing a party whose arrogance caused the problem to begin with. Mind you, if the Liberals and NDP think for a minute that I'd ever vote for either party now that they've jumped into bed with the Bloq, they're as stupid and arrogant as the Conservatives.
The Conservatives are dead in the water by their own hand. Sort of ironic.
A failed power play by the Conservatives results in a power grab by the other parties and they all have the best interests of the Canadian taxpayer in mind.
A curse on all their houses.
December 1, 2008 / 10:33
Just exactly what do you egghead Liberals, NDP'rs and separatists think Harper should do about the economy?? What part of Global Problem do you not understand.Before Harper can do anything he has to wait for the transition of power to Obama to see what our largest trading partner is planning, he has to wait for Congress to decide what kind of Bailout the Auto Industry is going to receive, and really let's at least wait to see if we are in a recession before spending millions ( billions) of dollars on programs that may or may not be needed.
Calm down and let him do his job.Negativity breeds Negativity.
December 1, 2008 / 10:38
Larry, Moe and Possibly Curly
running this Country.
( Holy Fluck )
December 1, 2008 / 10:43
Chretien, Dion and Duceppe running Canada...get ready for it.
December 1, 2008 / 10:48
Ok, I’m not a fan of Harper, and in particular the way he has managed to screw up the only reasonable right of centre option we have. That said, if this coalition comes together, it will make Chretien/Martin liberals seem somewhere right of Genghis Khan himself. For the coalition to exist, it will require the blue liberals to get pushed into the margins and away from the cameras, and overall you will see a significant shift to the left on economic and social policy, and of course the monetary support of every separatist cause we spent the better part of 40 years combating. While I have nothing against improved social policy, every new left focused government seems to want only more programs to pin their names on, likely because fixing something that is already in place won’t have the cachet of creating another ill managed sinkhole.
Ontario residents know what is coming…the second coming of Bob Rae. It’s ironic he is at least involved at the top tier of the coming catastrophe!
December 1, 2008 / 10:54
From Don Martin of the National Post:
“The craziest part is that the Liberals have done precisely what any decent Official Opposition should do - dug in hard against unacceptable government action to force change. And the Harper government has reacted the way minority governments should, by bending to the will of rivals to rethink a bad move.”
I hope it ends here. Harper made an arrogant move in an attempt to cripple his opposition. He has backed down and now so should the Liberals and the NDP. Canada elected the Conservatives and while I am not happy with it, that is the way it is. If you want to force another election, go ahead, you’ll probably lose some more seats. If the Liberals and NDP take over the government without an election, I won’t be happy.
It is a very tricky situation. Harper flip-flopped and of course Fred has no issue with it. The opposition used the power they are allowed to use and Fred doesn’t like it. But then I will be called a socialist for not liking Harper.
I would be curious to see the reaction if the NDP and the Liberals merged their parties before an election. I don’t know if I would support it (as I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative) but it would make for an interesting election.
December 1, 2008 / 11:00
Time to move to the States...oh wait, Obama will be in charge soon. Maybe Ireland will be OK.
December 1, 2008 / 11:05
I fully expect the NDP the show up at my door any day now, trolling for votes. Layton has hit rock bottom. He is a loser right up there with Bob Rae, and Stephane Dion.
December 1, 2008 / 11:48
Wow Fred! You make me feel almost famous! Bye Argue, go south to Dixie Land. You'll fit right in.
December 1, 2008 / 11:59
Sorry Fred, I won't comment becuase this guy does it best.
"This weekend the Harper Conservatives not only eavesdropped on the national caucus meeting of another party, but then bragged about to the media and released an audiotape. What’s worse? Utter hypocrisy, or a total lack of ethics?
Ah, but this is just the start.
Since staring death in the chops – the kind of political oblivion Mr. Harper visited upon me, heaped upon Stephane Dion, dumped on Bill Casey and anyone else who dared question or oppose him – our subprime minister has been showing just the kind of guy he really is. Apparently, he’s willing to say, or do anything to retain power.
First, he used an economic crisis for millions of Canadians as an excuse to try and screw his opponents on Parliament Hill. In his glee, he forgot any measures to help families or create jobs.
Then, realizing what a dickhead move that was, and after defending it for one day, he threw it overboard. Then he also threw overboard a move to take away the right to strike from public servants.
Along with this, he cancelled a vote in Parliament that would have defeated his government, and pushed it back to December 8th.
Then he threw his finance minister overboard, having him announce a budget for January that he had just announced for March.
Now, as I wrote this, comes news Harper is actually considering shutting down Parliament entirely to prevent any vote from taking place until a budget is read – two months from now.
It could not be any clearer right now what matters to this person, which is what I have been saying here for two years. Stephen Harper is obsessed with himself, with holding and exercising power, and with political brinkmanship. He orchestrated the last election when there was no need for one, simply to avoid the coming financial mess. During the campaign he lied to voters about the economy, the banks, the deficit and the opposition. In Halton, voters were told Liberals would scrap child care payments, jack up the GST and run a deficit – messages which had been repeated in millions of dollars worth of government propaganda funded by taxpayers. All lies. And no sooner had the vote happened, but this guy was in Peru saying the economy was 1929 all over again, and bailing out the banks with $75 billion.
If there was ever an election which was financially and intellectually stolen, it was this one.
And over the last three days we have proof after proof that the Harper agenda has virtually nothing to do with the welfare of the Canadian people. Unethical, dishonest, unprincipled and hate-driven, it is a dead party walking.
Eight more days."
Quote taken from Garth Turners Blog.
December 1, 2008 / 12:34
Mike from Lowville, this takes the cake.
Using Garth Turner as a reference???????
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Turner's nothing but a spoiled brat who jumped ship because he couldn't get his way.
He's guilty of everything he accuses Harper of.
Mike pleeeaaase.. Give us a huge break.
Garth Turner? Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Mike from Lowville is funny.
December 1, 2008 / 13:34
Mike from Low: You are funny and sad at the same time...much like a circus clown.
December 1, 2008 / 13:35
Trash Garth all you want. I am not a fan of his.
But what about the facts, Gene? Care to comment on them?
December 1, 2008 / 13:44
What facts. it's just Turner's twisted opinion. Apparently even those inside the Liberal party were growing tired of this guy.
December 1, 2008 / 14:35
Fact:
"This weekend the Harper Conservatives not only eavesdropped on the national caucus meeting of another party, but then bragged about to the media and released an audiotape. What’s worse? Utter hypocrisy, or a total lack of ethics?"
Fact:
Harper said there would be no deficit.
Fact:
Harper said he would not pull public funding and then flip-flopped as this blog points out.
Want more?
December 1, 2008 / 14:41
I've been reading all these posts and only one (Speyside Phil)seems to get it.
At this point, just because a few thousand people lost their jobs it doesn't mean there is a recession (yet, maybe not at all).
Obviously, the NDP, Liberals and the Bloque love to spread doom and gloom, hoping that it actually will happen. Based on the crowds in the shopping malls this past weekend, the economy doesn't seem as bad as they want to make you believe.
To get back to Speyside Phil, where exactly do you people expect the federal government to throw there money at, auto industry perhaps? I am sure that would cure the recession immediately, if there is one.
If you think the situation is bad with Harper, let the other three boneheads form a coalition and see where that will get us.
The problem is (my) our tax dollars will have to pay for the damages these guys will do and I don't like it one bit.
December 1, 2008 / 14:41
What facts indeed. Garth Turner is a bride scorned. He's made a name for himself by advocating fiscally conservative measures for the common man. Read any of his books.
Originally he viewed the Conservatives as the best match with his own thinking and sought a seat in parliament as a Conservative member. But as soon as he was told to form up with the other MP's he took his ball home and prostituted himself by joining the Liberals. Why? Because he wants more to keep his own perks than to listen to the party heirarchy. So much so that he would rather sell him self than stay true to his own principles.
Remember the so-called "Rat Pack"? It was fine for Copps, et al, to criticise the Mulroney gov't, but as soon as they stepped out of line with the Liberals they were all ostricised by their own party. The same will happen to Turner. He'd likely join the ranks of the Bloq when that happens. It's just a matter of time, so I wouldn't put too much credit in what Garth Turner has to say.
By the by, the Conservatives were invited to take part in the conference call. Why? Who knows. Far from eavesdropping, though.
December 1, 2008 / 14:41
No, because everything Harper did was warranted. To combat the loonies on the other side.
He's bringing sanity back to Canadian politics, but because of the Jack Layton's of the world he has to do it through the back door.
He deserves praise. Fact.
December 1, 2008 / 14:58
Andrew,
You know there's going to be a deficit? Before the budget has been presented? You know this for a "fact"? Maybe the RCMP should investigate where this leak came from.
I agree with Gene. Why should my money (tax dollars) be given to a party that wants to tear Canada apart? If I want to contribute to the Bloq then I will contribute to them through my own contributions. Just like any other party.
No party should feed from the public trough. If a party has to exercise "other means" to make it happen, then so be it.
December 1, 2008 / 15:07
Forget Harper vs the others. We had an election and the voters spoke. If the Liberals and NDP are so power hungry, send it back to the poles for another vote. I'm starting to seriously question our democratic process in this country.
December 1, 2008 / 15:26
Actually, it is the most democratic thing (as much as I don't support those using it) that has been seen in a long while. The original design of parliament was the local MP's all got elected, then went to Ottawa (Kingston at the time)and voted on the PM and on it went. It was not a forgone conclusion as to who ruled until the entrenchment and streamlining of the party system. The existing party structure and voting system is what is undemocratic...
December 1, 2008 / 15:53
Now we know why the Liberals took are Guns first!
December 1, 2008 / 15:53
Gene, you didn't refute anything.
IanS, they were invited by mistake, didn't announce their pressence and recorded the events. While not illegal you cannot call it ethical.
December 1, 2008 / 16:11
Andrew, no, not ethical. No debate. But I'm only talking about the recording part.
They didn't ask to be invited. I don't see the necessity to announce yourself if you've been invited.
But can you blame them for recording the meeting? Wouldn't you have done it? Be honest.
And having done it, they then have an obligation to disclose having done so. And it would follow that they would release a transcript, if not the actual recording.
December 1, 2008 / 16:44
Let me get this straight - last week Ignatieff and Rae were flinging sh*t at each other and now they vow to work together. Right.
The liberals don't give a crap about the economy or the average Canadian. They only care about power and will take it on any terms. This is facism, pure and simple.
December 1, 2008 / 17:31
If the world even bothers paying attention to Canada, they must surely be laughing right now.
Where else but in the most illegitimate Banana Republic could a man who was rejected by the voters, and then by his own party, end up running the country?
As a voter I feel insulted and humiliated. As a Canadian, I'm embarrassed. These clowns continue to diminish this country's once-proud reputation for their own selfish needs. Sickening.
December 1, 2008 / 17:44
As long as we're throwing history and tradition out the window, why should it be PM Stephane Dion. I say Gilles Duceppe should be PM.
December 1, 2008 / 18:58
Harper should have stuck to his guns and denied all political parties the chump change they so desparately need.
The coalition would be a joke, even less would be accomplished.
I hear lots of bitching and moaning from the other parties, nothing constructive.
Maybe the whole idea of government should be to work together, regardless of your political stripe, for the best of the country and its people. I'm probably being naive.
Tell us, Liberals, NDP and the Bloc, if you were king, what would you do?
Pretty easy to sit on the sidelines and throw shit just to buy enough time for your gold plated handshake.
December 1, 2008 / 19:08
I forgot to add, I'd prefer an election before a coalition even though it would cost a lot. If the coalition has the answers to the global economic troubles let's hear them.
December 1, 2008 / 19:52
Thanks Max for summing up this perfectly. Steph Dion was a dead man walking a week ago and now he'll be our PM. WTF?!?
Hopefully some of the decent members of the Liberal party will wake up and realize this is so wrong not to mention the fact they've got in bed with that separatist weasel Duceppe.
December 1, 2008 / 20:02
HAHA Harper won the popular vote. Funny how he won the popular vote on the lowest turn out of voters in how long? As I have stated before Harper isn't completely stupid he saw the economic down turn coming. He then called an election and broke a platform promise so that he would ensure that he could stay in power longer. Lets not forget that the waste of an election that just occured was harpers fault.
Argie Harper jumped in bed with the same weasel to get his way and bring down the government before. Only difference is oh wait there really isn't any. Sorry they didn't call it a coalition, but the reality is it wouldn't be a coalition with Bloq a part of it they are relying on Bloq support no different then harper himself.
Thank god the two goofs Dion and Laytion finally grew a pair and stuck it to Harper. Harper is quick to throw his weight around, but when someone fights back he ducks and covers. Harper deserves no praise, he's being a coward.
"Because of the Jack Layton's of the world he has to do it back door" WOW that's really intelligent good way to defend your Monkey Gene.
December 1, 2008 / 20:04
I see a lot of CROW for supper tonight boys......ROTFLMFAO, that's for you Argue.
December 1, 2008 / 20:09
Frank finally spelled his name correctly.
I guess we all now should listen to him, NOT.
December 1, 2008 / 22:17
No Ian I would not. And don't try to say they shouldn't have announced themselves. Trying to defend their actions is pointless. It was unethical and pretty slimy. I can't feel bad for the Conservatives when they pull tricks like this one. They keep saying they are against political tricks and then they do this. They lose credibility. I don't like the Liberals or the NDP. I am trying to like the Cons and they keep pulling crap like this. It makes me regret my vote.
December 2, 2008 / 08:06
Andrew. At least you had a vote. You don't now. The Kooky Koalition has taken that right from you.
December 2, 2008 / 23:27
....and simple Ian is just that, SIMPLE.
December 3, 2008 / 12:29
I always wondered what happened to Dan Duran after he parted ways with CTV. Didn't he break his leg or something?
I bet he was always tired of playing second banana to whomever was the host at the time.
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