September 12, 2008 / 08:38
I think this will be a big issue for me. I want to see how each party responds. My vote is available right now.
I don't want to see the Liberals blame the Conservatives. That's bull.
I don't want to see the Conservatives just say that Dion will raise the price (not true..read the Green Shift...as flawed as it is, it does not raise the price of regular fuel).
The NDP won't get my vote anyway..maybe if Layton shaves.
September 12, 2008 / 09:03
Rat Bastards! Nothing but a bunch of stealing rat bastards!
Fred you make a good point about not using the car washes and the convenience stores. I stopped doing that years ago. I don't care how convenient it is, I refuse to let them make an extra cent off of me. I also shake my head at all the people that buy smokes, magazine, and other crap at the stores. If you're sick of this gouging, DON'T BUY ANYTHING BUT GAS AT A GAS STATION. Sure they might increase the price of gas but they'll lose on the investment they've made on these convenience store upgrades.
September 12, 2008 / 09:06
Not one drop of OIL has ever been spilled in the Gulf due to a hurricane. EVER!!!!!
What a joke this is and I agree Fred we are getting screwed much worse in Canada.
September 12, 2008 / 09:12
8 yrs ago when the oil state gov GWB became Prez we all should have bought stocks in oil and munitions. Some of GWB buds are so rich that they don't know how rich.
But as we all know greedy people don't know when to stop. As for speculators running up the price---gimme a break...big oil has controlled oil for decades...speculators my *ss.
Drive less drive slower...it's all the common man and woman can do.
September 12, 2008 / 09:51
We’re all to blame for high gas prices. We’re to blame because we keep filling up our vehicles. I know its simple but the only way the gas companies are going to lower the price of gas is if they think we won’t pay $1.30 a litre.
When gas was in the 1.30’s a while back, we were still filling up (complaining about it) but nevertheless driving our vehicles and filling up.
The price of gas in the US is totally irrelevant. Our prices are higher than theirs simply because we’re willing to pay more. The same applies to other consumer products.
The objective of the oil companies, and any other type of company for that matter, is to make as much profit as possible. They do this by charging as much as they think the consumer will pay. They are not in the charity business and we should never expect an oil company to be “fair” when it comes to setting the prices.
One thing for is that the major oil companies are colluding (i.e. setting a price per litre that they will all charge). The govt could go after them for that but it’s doubtful anything would come of it.
The solution: Drive less and buy a fuel efficient car.
September 12, 2008 / 09:53
Fred! How can you say that about our oil industry friends? On Oakley this morning, oil patch apologist Schizas got into a shouting match with Dan McTeague (the Cam Woolley of gas prices) over the gouging at the pumps. One's a one-trick pony, for whom the oil barons can do no wrong, and the other's a one-trick phony, who really doesn't know anything more about the price of gas than anyone else. Some expert analysis.
September 12, 2008 / 10:07
Yeah, I heard that shouting match this morning too. It was almost embarrassing to hear two men I respect reduced to schoolyard mentality. Strange days indeed.
And Freddie they're not bastards, they're GREEDY bastards.
September 12, 2008 / 10:16
Everyone gets angry and complains about this, but nothing is ever done.
We should take this into our own hands.
September 12, 2008 / 11:03
I agree the shouting match between McTeague and Lou was annoying but I have to side with MP. He at least was being honest if not totally correct. He blamed the oil companies which is fine but he can’t expect them to feel sorry for us and lower the price.
As for Lou, he’s so full of crap it’s not funny. His BS about transportation cost for oil was laughable. He actually believes consumers will buy his explanations for the oil companies. He has no credibility when it comes to this topic. He’s biased and Oakley should know better and not have this shyster speak on this topic.
September 12, 2008 / 11:13
Reducing comsumption probably wouldn't help much. The claim would be that since they aren't selling as much, then they need to raise the price to offset the loss in sales.
The argument that we ar to blame is not entirely valid. We could use less and a lot of people are making that effort, however, when you raise the price by such a large amount overnight there is no recorse for people that have no alternative for transportation. Access to downtown Toronto by public transport is very good. Access to Oakville from Guelph or Kitchener is not good.
Last point, the major problem is that the price of gas for all stations rise and fall together. They are price fixed and we can't boycott one place since all of the prices are the same. When they use excuses like "Hurricane Ike" and the US price doesn't change as well it is clearly a lie to hide their real motive. Also, since the government is taxing gas at at a pretty high rate, they are able to do something about it.
People like Lou Schizas make me sick. He is supposed to be an unbiased expert but he favours one side way too much. He shouldn't be anyone's expert anymore. It's like the Star reporting on Harper or Limbaugh talking about Democrats.
September 12, 2008 / 11:33
Looking to the gas companies to lower prices is laughable...hey in their shoes would you lower prices? Looking to the government to lower prices...that's funny--governments don't do anything productive and oil is a cash cow for them too.
We cannot use less gas (within reason), we have to drive to work, get groceries, etc. The don't buy gas on a certain day won't work either...oil companies can wait the day out. What needs to happen is to select one of the big four and only buy gas from them until the price drops. In the US the gas price is about $1 per litre. So if people got together and said only buy gas from Station X until the price drops to $1. Eventually the other stations will lower their price rather than shutdown. Organizing this on the scale that needs to be effective is the challenge...
September 12, 2008 / 11:53
A friend of mine mentioned after driving up HWY115 that the prices were varied and less than Toronto where they always seem to be equal...collusion?...nah...
not the oil industry.
I'm sure if we boycott the car washes which are priced [water and soap] higher than gas and coffee and other stuff there the station owner suffers as he probably doesn't make a lot per litre...then again that's what THEY say.
Now buying from only one station may work but which one do WE pick...Shell, Esso, Sunoco, PetroCan, Fred's Cheap Gas? Yeah buy from so called independants only.
September 12, 2008 / 11:57
Saw McTeague on CTV this am. Seems he was politiking for Steffie.
Blaming Harper for the price of gas. That's what they do for votes. Slice and dice.
Guess he's to blame for USA prices being high too.
When I see Bush and Harper riding camels I'll know they are sincere. Until then it's the usual...trust no one.
September 12, 2008 / 13:28
Back in February 2008, crude prices were approximately $101-$102 per barrel. The cost of gasoline in the Toronto/Hamilton area was $1.08 per litre. Before yesterdays' increase crude prices were $101-$102 per barrel. The cost of gasoline was $1.22 per litre.
We were already being over charged by $0.14 per litre before today's $0.13 per litre increase.
Gouging on top of gouging, only in Canada.
(http://www.hamiltongasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx)
September 12, 2008 / 13:38
Fred, if you expect a political party with any chance of forming a government to do anything really effective to stem oil profiteering, you're dreaming! That would be tampering with entrepreneurship and free enterprise.
September 12, 2008 / 14:08
Few things to think about before you go bringing up the usual whinefest about how evil oil companies are
1. In 2005, with oil at 72 a barrel gas prices in Ontario were around 1.20/1.25.
2. In 2008, with oil at 140 a barrel, gas prices were around 1.35
In 3 years the price of oil nearly doubled. The price of gas barely increased.
Why? For starters, refinery margins were cut to keep people purchasing gasoline. In short, you GOT a deal from the oil companies, exactly opposite of what you believe.
Now...oil is traded on the Merc AS ARE GASOLINE futures. The two are too different contracts and traded independently . The price of gasoline futures has increased (while oil has not) because the hurricanes threaten the REFINERIES which produce the gasoline.
This is the free market acting as it should. Ironic how so many of you espouse the merits of the free market until it's not working in your favour.
September 12, 2008 / 14:43
Irv
I'm not an MBA but I seem to remember gas prices in 2005 around $.75 a liter.
I don't think of the oil giants as evil etc...I think we got a break as they are US controlled and we are side by side with them.
Europeans seem to pay more but maybe not. In GB last year gas seemed to be a quid a litre. But they also seem to make more than us.
Also , oil when Bush started 8 yrs ago was $25 a barrel...thereabouts. He's from Texas. Now it's 4 times that. Lots of related issues here.
September 12, 2008 / 14:44
I don't track this stuff as a rule but I don't ever remember paying $1.25 per litre in 2005.
September 12, 2008 / 14:44
Hate to admit it but Irvine is 100% right.
The sooner people get the notion that the price per barrel is directly related to the price at the pump out of their heads, the better off we’ll all be.
Like I stated earlier, drive less and buy a fuel efficient car.
How does one drive less? Perhaps its less trips to Timmies to grab crappy coffee (including waiting in their drive thru’s). Its reducing the times you drive your kids to their special schools (by special I mean, non-publicly funded schools). It’s not driving your kid(s) to their guitar, hockey, dance, Mandarin classes. Fewer activities outside of school won’t make him/her less brilliant, ya know.
September 12, 2008 / 14:46
We run out of oil---no oil co's .
Que separates from Canada. No more Block. Lots of good people out of work.
September 12, 2008 / 14:50
Agree with Argie---less driving, no Esso Tim trip...buy a can and make your own.
More blankets les heat this winter...lots we can all do to preserve energy...adds up.
USA reduced their highways to 55 mph and saved a lot of energy...so it takes Fred 45 minutes to get to work...who cares...
September 12, 2008 / 15:16
Summer, 2005, when Katrina hit, oil and gas prices soared. Oil was at about 72 bucks, gas hit around 1.20. Still have my receipts.
Susie > Bush has nothing to do with oil prices. The US has 3% of the worlds oil reserves. Secondly (and most importantly) 80% of the oil industry is STATE OWNED. Exxon, BP, etc only account for about 20% of the industry. Kinda hard for Bush to be in cahoots with 25 different governments to raise prices, isn't it
The price increase in oil is due to increasing demand and a declining supply of the "low hanging fruit". It has everything to do with geology & nothing to do with evil oil people.
September 12, 2008 / 15:24
Irvine why are you such an apologist for the oil companies? You sound like Schizas.
The increase that has got us all talking needs to be explained. How about you explain it to all of us dummies?
Argie, driving less around the block can be helpful but you cannot honestly suggest that we stop extra activities entirely. No it won't make them less brilliant but it will make them less rounded.
September 12, 2008 / 15:38
The only time it was $1.25 in 2005 was in August/September right as Katrina hit...see a pattern?
September 12, 2008 / 15:42
Irv
I have no proof and never would be able to prove that friends of the Bush's bought stock in oil and munition companies 8 yrs ago. But it woukld make a great story.
The Katrina hit got gas here up to $1.30 that I do remember but it was a short spike not a trend...certainly not something to use statisically alone.
As for oil reserves...where do they stand?...there alone will jack up prices eh...lack of oil...I found an article from 1970 that said we would run out of oil by 2000 and that didn't happen. Apparently Alaska has lots of natural gas and oil...hmmmm...another oil VP ala GB Sr.
September 12, 2008 / 15:44
Opec control;s how much world oil? 50% but that's all we hear about Opec.
September 12, 2008 / 15:49
Andrew: who is an apologist? This is just simply economics man. Canadians love the free market system when it WORKS for them. When it works against them it's a "conspiracy"
You all seem to have a problem with the oil industry "gouging" you. During the last housing boom did any of you buy a house & make a tidy profit? When you sold your house did you consider it "gouging" the next buyer or selling at what the market would pay ?
Like I said man, Canadians love the free market when it works for THEM. When it's against them, it's a conspiracy. And even so called "right wingers" like Fred Patterson feel the same way.
Irvine. A REAL capitalist.
September 12, 2008 / 15:59
Susie:
When you refer to "alot" of gas & oil in Alaska exactly what do you mean? For starters, there is a difference between potential & proven reserves. So let's say Alaska has 30 billion barrels of oil. Sounds like alot, right, until you take into account that the world consumes 30 billion barrels of oil EVERY year.
As for OPEC, no one really knows the status of their reserves. OPEC production is based on their stated reserves and STRANGELY back in the 80s when production targets were being negotiated their reserves DOUBLED overnight. And..they haven't changed since then. Interesting, isn't it.
And if you don't believe we're entering a shortage of oil, think about this. To extract a barrel of oil from a conventional well costs about 2 bucks. To extract it from the oil sands costs about 35 dollars. If there was SO MUCH cheap & easy oil, why did business invest 88 BILLION dollars in the Oil sands last year ? Why would you invest in the "difficult to extract" oil if there was so much of the easy stuff available ?
Google "Peak Oil" and educate yourself.
September 12, 2008 / 16:23
Irv
Very enlightening. You know a lot about that industry.
Thanks for the discussion. Most blogs are all talk and no listening. Have a great weekend be thankful we are not oil rich Texans right now.
S
September 12, 2008 / 16:30
The price was not $1.20 in 2005 as Irvine states (I have receipts too), it was $1.09.
Also there is a huge difference between house prices soaring due to the economy and price fixing by the oil industry. They are gouging us and we have to take matters in our own hands.
September 12, 2008 / 16:30
The price was not $1.20 in 2005 as Irvine states (I have receipts too), it was $1.09.
Also there is a huge difference between house prices soaring due to the economy and price fixing by the oil industry. They are gouging us and we have to take matters in our own hands.
September 12, 2008 / 17:04
Sammi: What price fixing? Oil & gas prices are set on mercantile exchanges around the world by ANYONE that wants to get involved. In fact, you could easily get involved & trade in the market if you were so inclined.
As for "taking matters into your own hands". Can I suggest something? Stop consuming so much...but that's hard when you're part of the continent that uses 1/4 of the worlds daily oil production yet only has 4% of the worlds population
And Sammi, let's assume your price of 1.09 was correct when oil hit 72 dollars a barrel. Today, oil is 100 dollars a barrel which is 40% higher than what it was in 2005 at 72 bucks a barrel. Therefore, if gas was 1.09 in 2009, gas prices today should be 1.52 a litre and should have topped out over 2 dollars a litre when oil was over 140 a barrel
September 13, 2008 / 09:35
If we made the transition to an oil free economy we wouldnt be held slave to the prices at the pumps.
T.Boone Pickens has a good plan to begin that process but as usual the politicians in the US take it as lip service and will do what ever their lobbyists pay them to do.
people need to stand up and say no. Heres an idea too. What if we all, everyone, everysingle one of us planned to just stay home for a week. Stock up and stay home. Don't go to work, don't go to the stores, don't go anywhere. Send a message to the coorporate enterprises that run our economies that we are not going to be taken advantage of, that includes oil companies.
September 13, 2008 / 10:08
Buffalo Boy, if we all stayed home from work, we'd probably all get fired and then we couldn't go to the stores or anywhere else because we wouldn't have any money to buy gas or anything else. Yep, less fuel consumption, no more gas purchases.
Seriously, it would be nice if we could launch an effective boycott against the oil companies. As others have said earlier, don't buy anything but gas from the stations. Lower your driving speed on the highways. Going an extra 10 - 20 km/hr isn't going to save that much time on the average trip. Smoother accelerations reduce consumption. Stop buying gas guzzling North American cars. I recently got a Corolla and am getting 36 mpg in the city and 45 mpg on the highway. If the grocery or variety store is within walking distance, walk and don't drive. There are a number of little things we can do and if we all do them, it can make an impact.
September 13, 2008 / 17:21
Alan, Think about a big stay at home strike though, they can't fire everyone from the work force. It would be a shock to the coorporate system. They would need everyone back.
I own a Corolla too. The nicest thing about it is they last forever. Change the oil every 2000-3000 miles and get a tune up once a year and it purrs even with 120,000 miles and im still getting 29-31 per gallon and the thing is turning 8 years old next june.
Haven't made a car payment in over a year now.
September 14, 2008 / 16:32
Irvine, it seems like you have all the answers. Perhaps you could then explain to us why gas prices in Ontario immediately jumped 13 cents/litre as soon as it appeared that Ike was heading for the Gulf coast refinery area, but didn't budge at all in the U.S.? Prices don't just move up and down all by themselves. There is always human intervention motivated by greed.
September 17, 2008 / 16:58
Bend Over Canada! Share Fri 8:44am September 12, 2008 Rant! The price of oil dropped to one hundred dollars a barrel yesterday, but when you drive to work this morning you'll notice the price of gas in Ontario jumped by close to thirteen cents a litre or fifty cents a gallon. How's that for the Canadian oil companies ramming it where the sun don't shine. The excuse this time is so feeble, so ridiculous and so pathetic that it leaves you shaking your head to the point of bruising your brain. They blame the hurricanes that are sweeping through the southern United States. How bizarre. When the world price of oil goes up, the price at the pumps goes up immediately, but when the world price goes down, it takes a little longer to make it to the pumps. But in this case, with such a dramatic drop in the world price over the past several days, you'd think the hurricane excuse would at least make us break even at the cash register. And to make matters worse, where the oil refineries are located, where the storms are having the most effect physically, in the United States, prices will not rise nearly as much as they have in Canada. The oil company collusion in this country is perverted and corrupt and something has to be done about it, and it should become an election issue. In some ways, it couldn't have come at a better time because it will (or should) put pressure on all the parties to come up with a solution. Of the course the easy thing to do would be to blame the Conservatives, but this bullshit has been going on in this country for way longer than the Conservatives have been in power, and before then, the Liberals did very little to combat the oil companies. Needless to say, there's not much we can do about it today or tomorrow, but maybe over the long haul we can fight back in other ways. By refusing to use gas station convenience stores, car washes or coffee shops. Phone the oil company you use the most and voice your displeasure and refuse to buy or support anything they sponsor. But most of all, phone your MP and scream into the phone, and if its a Liberal or NDP MP don't let them pass the buck and blame it on the Conservatives. Tell your MP that you want "them" to do something about it. Voice their opinion in Parliament on your behalf or contact the oil companies directly. It's all we can do. The behaviour oil companies in this country is ruthless and heartless. They know that gas is a necessity and that Canadian families are being severely affected by it, but they don't care. Meanwhile there are a bunch of fat ass pricks at the top making more money than they'll ever be able to spend in a lifetime. Bastards. John Lundrigan Jr. 4 comments Report Note Archie Carr wrote at 10:13am on September 12th, 2008 Hurray to you John!!!!! Once again you hit the nail on the head...... Shannon McNicol Parsons (Sudbury, ON) wrote at 12:53pm on September 12th, 2008 Here here John! Chad Wyers (Sudbury, ON) wrote at 12:10pm yesterday Nice read John, I especially like how you transfer the blame to everyone except for the actual party that is in power. But actually I do put little blame on the government for the price of oil anyway, seeing as only a very small part of what we pay actually goes to taxes. It's the oil companies themselves that are gauging the customers. They say profits are down, yet the ceo's continue to get large raises etc. John Lundrigan (Sudbury, ON) wrote at 11:21am Much like the price of oil, the price of gas is determined on the open market. Regardless of what it costs to get it out of the ground and refined, there is a market price for gasoline that is determined by buyers and sellers of the commodity in bulk around the world. This makes up the base to which all other taxes, levies, duties and profits are added on top of. This is what happened this week. With 25% of US refining capacity out, there was a tightening of supply and the price in the market went up. I do not like paying 1.30 for gas but not a lot anyone, Jack Layton, Stephen Harper or George W Bush can do about it!
Edit Freddy Fan Bend Over Canada
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