November 15, 2007 / 10:12
Please listen to the video as well as watch; also please look-up the struggle of the young man that made sure that this his video was released.
As much as I want to agree with you, I can't. Not only is this a crime of murder; we must stop the RCMP from investigating they're own actions.
If you have time please look up the death of Ian Bush in Houston, BC. No film at 11 on that one.
We have a problem with our cowboys out here Fred.
On a further note on the subject, why the hell was he in that room for 10 hours?
November 15, 2007 / 12:54
In no particular order:
Why was Mr. Dziekanski held in a room for 10 hours? Well look at it this way, someone comes to this country from Poland and he speaks *no* English. Communications is a clear problem. If he can't answer Customs and Immigration officials questions, he is not going to be invited in. I would be surprised if those that were detaining him didn't know he was Polish, I presume that they were trying to get a Polish translator. Can that take 10 hours. Sure. The person on take that kept saying he speaks Russian was clearly not in authority.
Mr. Dziekanski should have come to this country more prepared for entrance given his language skills. He could easily have been more prepared considering the journey that he embarked on.
Do not confuse my remarks with any indication that he deserved what he got, I feel for him and his family and am truly sorry that it had to happen at all, but it is not the Police forces fault.
The Police that responded I think responded appropriately, they *did not* use deadly force, i.e. pull out a traditional gun with bullets. I don't think they or anyone trained in the use of a taser thinks of it as deadly force. One woman, somewhere, was quoted as asking why they didn't tackle him? I am no cop, and I have never had Police training, but I think it's fairly common knowledge that Police officers do not use physical force as a method of detention unless there are extenuating circumstances.
This was not extenuating, it was an irate passenger at an airport who could not communicate and was not cooperating with uniformed, Police officers. Had an officer "tackled" him, he risked being stabbed or physically injured himself, not a position that most Police officers want to put themselves in unnecessarily.
Should the RCMP investigate the RCMP? Heck no. Did the RCMP make any mistakes, that's to be seen. From my untrained eye and from the view point of the bystanders video, they seemed to act pretty well up til the video cuts out. I have heard that there was improper handling of the situation after it was realized that Mr. Dziekanski did not have life signs, but again, I wasn't there and so that is to be seen.
Did this man die unnecessarily? Yes, he did. That however happened as a result of some of his own actions though and as such it is very unfortunate.
Should tasers be banned? I don't think so, but perhaps their use should be reviewed. Are they too powerful? Can they be turned down a notch and still be effective?
This is no murder, this is a very sad and unfortunate event that I think was handled as best as it could have been.
--Pete
November 15, 2007 / 13:08
Pete.....
Well put , I agree with everything you said
This is a sad unfortunate event
November 15, 2007 / 14:32
tasers have their place, but this wasn't one of them. he wasn't hurting anyone, he was just annoying. police should use tasers on a guy with a knife or a club, but some unarmed old polish guy should just get tackled.
those cops were either pussies or wanted to try out their new toy.
November 15, 2007 / 14:53
It will be interesting to find out what caused his death. He's clearly so agitated that the taser could have caused a heart attack or stroke.
Why did his mother leave the airport instead of finding out why her son was not among the disembarking passengers?
November 15, 2007 / 14:54
Dear Jim and Pete
Please read this report from the Airport Authorities CEO. You may want to have Fred remove your post, as the report contradicts most of the points you made.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/02/bc-ceotaser.html?ref=rss
November 15, 2007 / 15:47
wow what a very disturbing video, i cant help but put my self in his shoes, in a strange county where no one speaks his language, no one there to meet him, u can see the panick on his face, imagine one of us going to poland and being in that situation, lets hope the poles would handle the situation better than we did. i have a friend from holland who came to canada after world war 2 as a young man. a yr ago i told him to rent the tom hanks movie terminal which i thought was funny. after joe watched the movie i asked him how he enjoyed it, he told me it made him cry, it brought back such memories of being alone coming to a new country unable to speak english, he said it was overwhelming. it takes big balls to come to a new country all by yourself with no family or friends and make a new life for yourself.
November 15, 2007 / 20:52
@Lew,
I wouldn't ask Freddie to remove any post I make, I stand behind what I said. It was an unfortunate and sad incident that I do not hold the Police responsible for.
Regardless of where he is from, what language he speaks, he should have been more prepared for his move to Canada. He had a blood relative here that obviously speaks English and she should have done more in advance as well. That alone could have prevented the entire incident from ever happening.
Still doesn't mean he should have met with such an untimely and sad death, but still, a little preparation and things could have been very different. I went to Cuba last year for the first time and although I speak some Spanish, I still prepared for customs and immigration and researched what I should expect.
My other points still stand as well, re: RCMP, use of tasers, etc... Besides, we still don't *know* what happened completely. Until a full investigation is completed, who can say what should have been done. Just because the Vancouver Airport Authority disclosed *some* more information doesn't make this a murder case against an RCMP officer.
--Pete
November 15, 2007 / 23:35
Pretty sad.
There are a lot of obvious questions, though one of the most glaring ones I have is why did it take airport security so long to arrive on the scene (apparently they showed up only just before the police)?
I thought this was the time of heightened security in our airports....
Looking at the video, it seems odd that 4 big cops couldn't restrain a lone (and seemingly smaller) individual. What did they do in the time before tasers?
I dunno. Seems a bit heavy handed, though it's hard to assign blame. Cops face a lot of sh*t these days....
As I said earlier: sad.
November 16, 2007 / 02:29
Pete - don't let the facts get in the way of a good post.
You say he couldn't answer Customs questions - he had cleared customs.
You say he was being detained - he had wandered into a secured area
You say he should have been more prepared, have a blood relative meet him - she did, his mother couldn't find him - she went to authorities and was told he wasn't on the flight and to go home.
The question was asked of the RCMP before the video tape, why not bear spray which is common in these situations - too many people close by the RCMP say - how many people close by in the video?
Final question Pete - when he stopped breathing why wasn't CPR administered, aren't they trained in such situations.
Look Pete, I admire the RCMP and the life and death situations they face, but this wasn't one of them and they killed a man because of their incompetence; the victim deserves justice.
Dear Fred, you write about people taking a stand and fighting for what is right. I'm afraid you missed the story on this one. The young man who stood by his morals and demanded his video back is the story
November 16, 2007 / 09:49
I just watched the video and the police did over step. The taser was used when he was not acting violently towards them. This isn't murder but it sure isn't right.
November 16, 2007 / 11:00
Ok welllll..... I have a couple of issues with this video and the entire situation. First why have the news networks not translated what this guy was trying to say to the police before the taser take down. That kind of irks me because he clearly didn't come off as hurling death threats at police.
Second why was there no translator there to help him? 10 hours at an international airport with no one that can speak polish doesn't that sound a bit retarded?
Third perhaps he did get riled up at the police when he realized they weren't there to help. This is a man from Poland a place where government officials and cops aren't known for exactly being on the up and up. Granted he was in this country but hell if I lived in a country with corrupt law officials I'd be wary of them as well. He had actually calmed down when it came to the RCMP getting there.
Lastly why hit him with two tasers. If people are trying to take down an animal for wahtever reason they don't shoot two tranq darts off at once they shoot one to see it's affect and then go for another. I have trouble believing that anyone getting shot with 50,000 volts is just going to lie down and submit in the fetal position. Go to youtube and watch the John Kerry tasering at a university. ( half a laugh and half a bit sad)
The shitty thing here is that I think for the most part law officials have been turned into the mickey mouse club around this country. If they legitimately pull a gun on someone who is a threat and kill them there is an investigation into whether or not it was valid. How about that guy snipered out in front of Uniion who had a hostage at gun point. To everyone everywhere they were valid in taking that piece of trash down, but still an investigation into whether or not it was justified. There are too many times where law officials don't use the right amount of force because they are scared sh#$less to what that will amount to back at headquarters.
The big issue here is how the few times that things aren't done right make it difficult for others to do the right thing in other situations. Imagine what this is going to do the police and RCMP in the area of vancouver let alone these officers. In North America I think people are always waiting to see law enforcement f up so that they can blast them with the video evidence. What happened to all of us being proud of these guys that protect us daily? There are enough times there are gun trafficking, carrying, using pieces trash walking our streets that our cops should take down with more than 50,000 volts, unfortunate what happened to this innocent Polish man none the less.
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A disturbing video has been released showing the tasering of a 40 year old Polish man at Vancouver airport on October 14th.
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