July 19, 2007 / 09:19
Fred,
No surprise here. I'm shocked Brampton didn't have a Mosque that size already. I've never lived in Brampton and sure as hell won't be moving there ever. It is sad that the long time residents - regardless of colour or religion - have to consider moving because of how their neighborhood has changed for the worse.
It's a familiar story in this wonderful GTA we live in. We can thank Trudeau and most of the Liberal party for encouraging this myth of multiculturalism. The only thing mass immigration has done is to create cultural ghettos for each ethnic group. I was told in school that multiculturalism was wonderful because it meant that on your street, there would be folks from all over the world - different ethnic groups, different religions. That simply doesn't happen.
Like most people I want diversity - not domination of one particular group.
July 19, 2007 / 09:34
Get used to it!! The original people who built this country (predominantly white Europeans of Christian faith)are now the minority and it's going to be a lot worse down the road.
All of our politicans, and that includes the Conservatives, Freddie, are only concerned about one thing and that is to get enough votes to stay in power. Tolerance, my foot. I'd love to be a fly on the wall around their dinner tables and listen to their comments about some of these issues and their true feeling about multiculturalism.
Reasonable tolerance is necessary. too much tolerance will only divide this country further.
July 19, 2007 / 10:20
I'm a huge fence-sitter, admittedly, so I really can't give a (un)biased opinion one way or the other, but how is this different to having a church of any denomination in a residential neighbourhood? Is it because it's a mosque being erected or would any church be opposed to? Although I don't live in Brampton, I'm familiar with the area in question, as my dad used to live in a nursing home on Sunnymeadow off Sandalwood.
July 19, 2007 / 11:05
The residents should just be happy it's not a dump or a quarry. Or move!!!
July 19, 2007 / 11:09
Mike: I believe some of the residents would be happier with a dump or quarry instead of what's there now.
July 19, 2007 / 12:08
This is our own fault for being so damn tolerant and allowing other cultures to change our way of life
Canada is such a diverse culture
For the most part we live pretty much together with out a lot of fuss
But is this a good thing or a bad thing
We as Canadians are loosing our identity and becoming a faceless country
There was a time when we were identified by the Mounties on there horse, Eskimos and Indians I know they were not true representatives of our country but at least they represented us
Know we are represented around the world as being a melting pot for all cultures
I was at Camp Borden last week and seen a Canadian solder wearing a Religious head gear (turban) I could not believe it.
They have even changed our Military clothing to make all these people happy
AS politically in correct as this is going to sound
I have to say it
We have to stop this and start to say no what the worst thing that is going to happen is
they leave
I would rather be called a racist or culturally intolerant then continue to let this happen
There is some middle ground here but they all need to start giving instead of always taking and they have to accept that this is Canada settled by the English and the French
It was not settled by countries from the Middle East or Asia if they can accept this
Then there is a chance to co exist if not Canada as we know it will not exist and we will become a minority in what was once a great country
July 19, 2007 / 13:25
Multiculturism never worked in the first place....you have little Italy, Greek town, even Georgetown...people want to live with their like kind so as to not feel alienated or isolated. Canada is no different and certainly not a model for integration
July 19, 2007 / 13:30
Maybe we are all looking at this too deeply. Maybe the problem is this: It's too damn big. Is there a need for a 96 foot tower? The full size of this structure is more of an eyesore than anything else.
I would think that had the mosque been built to adapt to its surroundings, in terms of size, people really wouldnt have been that upset. I am sure if Trump erected a skyscraper in the same lot people would also complain. You want to sit in your backyard and enjoy the sky or view or whatever. You dont want to look out and see a glass building or a 96 foot pole.
July 19, 2007 / 13:58
Fred, check with some Realtor first and you will found that house (around Mosq or Church) prices goes 20,000 to 35,000 (approx) higher than regular. As interested people start to buy nearby homes and always willing to pay more. In Markham area near a mosq, home owners sold houses even 60,000 to 70,000 heigher than market price. This is known trend in GTA area.
Also, please come to Mississauga, corner of Glen Erin and Erin Center Blv. intersection and see BIG church in the lot. What you will say about it...I am sure residents in this area don't want a big church in their back-yard but they are okay as they live in "multiculturalism" :-)
July 19, 2007 / 15:35
I have read this post a couple of times; with my immediate response being that this is a racist post. I now read it as a sign of fear; fear of your environment changing and fear of your values being compromised. I am a first generation Canadian, but being white I have never been treated like a child of immigrants, nor have I ever had the same expectations of “multi-generation†Canadians. This being said, I welcome the changes taking place in Canada, and look forward to the future that this change in demographics will bring. As for a mosque on the corner, I can only think of Bono's comment on Catholicism, “They are the glam-rock of religion†so let us not get too hung up about what it looks like, but more about what goes on with the abuses and cover-ups mired inside churches.
July 19, 2007 / 15:57
Lew if you read it that way then I believe you get it
Why should Canada as a country loose its idenity and its culture because we gracesiously open our doors to people who chose to come here for a better way of life
If they feel that they need there culture and there homeland way of life rather then crammong it down our throats
July 19, 2007 / 16:10
Lew:
Canadian culture or lack thereof aside, you mention we should be only concerned about what's happening inside of this building. You must be referring to the preaching of hate towards other religions (particularly Jews), suppression of women's rights (separate praying rooms along with other illegal activities like honour killings & female circumcision).
Of course you used the term ‘Church' which would lead me to think you were not referring to a mosque but in fact Christian churches. While many Christian churches have spoken out against pre-marital sex, birth control and homosexuality, not one have them have carried out executions for those indiscretions - unlike our Muslim ‘friends'.
July 19, 2007 / 16:17
What the Hell is a "crammong"?
Lew, don't even bother trying to discuss immigration with ignorant people. You will only get frustrated.
You are dealing with people that: drink copious amounts of Bud Lite, spend their time designing new names for masturbation, eat stew from cans, take videos of drunk fat men at trailers and take videos of a dogs anuses.
Hey, if immigration drives these red-necks further North- all the better!
July 19, 2007 / 16:24
Hey Abdul Singh - Since you want to use old stereotypes to get your point across, with a name like your's you must have a hell of a time with security agents at the airport. However I'm sure you don't have to wait an hour like the rest of us to get a cab at that same airport.
July 19, 2007 / 16:37
Hey Freddie - If I didn't know better, I'd swear Abdoul Singh is Swampy! Sure sounds like his rhetoric.
I don't mind the mosque - what I mind is the segregation of the sexes. Why are we tolerating this in Canada...?
July 19, 2007 / 16:57
Ref. to JIM
"gracesiously open our doors to people who chose to come here for a better way of life"
Why Canada advertise in papers of immigrant's countries (India, SiriLanka, Pakistan, Banglades etc) that "CANADA NEEDS SKILLED PEOPLE". I am not talking about those who get political asylum, I am talking about skilled ones who are driving Cabs and paying taxes. Canadan will not keep those multicultures if they are not benificial for Canada, for sure.
This is a racist post and Fred bring more senstive topics just to increase number of hits.
July 19, 2007 / 17:03
This mosque generates an interesting discussion. Those that have lived here with the values of Canadian society all their lives should be afraid of what changes are at hand. It is a matter of time before Canada is a Muslim dominated population, and how long after that before Sharia law is practiced in Canada?
The freedom previous Canadians fought for will be the very tool that will allow the "soon to be less tolerant majority" to take control of this country.
Time to stand up for what makes this country great, even if it is not politically correct.
July 19, 2007 / 17:32
Argie: I did use the word Church, and that probably is more from an upbringing in a white Anglo neighborhood rather than a conscious choice of words, please be comforted that I have a distain for all religion, but do feel that if one must believe then have at it and who am I to say anyone does not have the right to believe in what they want.
You are correct; I do have a particular concern with the conduct of the Catholic Church when it comes to covering up their conduct, which relates to condoning the buggering of innocent children. So as much as I cannot disagree with you for the atrocities you mention of the Muslim faith, I believe that all religions have the devils blood on their hands.
July 19, 2007 / 18:38
Hey Irvine...what the hell is 'prolly'??? Did you mean 'probably'?? What a dink!
July 19, 2007 / 21:25
Lew: I don't expect you to change your opinion of religion and I agree a lot of really bad things have been caused by individuals using their power within each religion. Like most things, a human's greed will only lead to bad (greed for money, power, violence, sex). To attach a Church or an entire religion is wrong. There are bad people within organizations like the boy Scouts, kid's hockey teams, private schools (see UCC in Toronto). Do we condemn all of those as well as we do certain churches? I don't believe that's wise.
July 19, 2007 / 21:49
Some of the comments here really, truly make me feel ashamed. Or are most of you Americans? It sure sounds like it. The land that is teeming with hate is south of us. We don't need that or any kind of hate here. Hang your heads people.
July 19, 2007 / 22:42
Argie: bad people select where they dwell, so no the house is not to blame, my problem is with the cover-up. When a boy- scout leader or hockey coach conquers its prey the organisation kicks them out and lets the law take care of the situation. The Catholic Church moves the monsters to safe grounds and covers their tracks. That is the difference.
July 19, 2007 / 23:27
Let's call a spade a spade (if it's OK to use a poker reference),
Bottom line I see is someone builds a huge ugly building next to my house, I don't like it.
Secondly, ugly building and the people who built it, subscribe to sexual discrimination, not permitted in Canada. The only facilities I know of in Canada where members of the opposite sex are not permitted is public washrooms and maybe some womens fitness clubs.
Immigrants, get with the program, Canada is a melting pot, not your own piece of where ever it is that you came from. I think Pierre fucked up on this one.
July 20, 2007 / 00:09
What a forum...
Spreading Hate....
Creating Gaps b/w communities...
Good job Fred!!
July 20, 2007 / 01:53
I am shocked and disgusted at some of the comments that have been made here.
July 20, 2007 / 09:36
Please!!!!! How is wanting to protect my country's identity spreading hate
If they are allowed to create there culture here why are we not allowed to preserve ours
I think the multiculturalism of Canada is great but why should we be forced to give up our culture so that they can experience there's
If you want to talk about racism I think you need to look at all racist against True Canadians you will find that we are the victims not the other way around
July 20, 2007 / 11:19
Jim: don't worry, you will still have your Toronto Maple Leafs, Fish & Chips shops, Maple Syrup and back bacon after this stunning piece of architecture is built.
Every Canadian woman, every Canadian man prizes that freedom and would defy anyone who tried to take it away - of that I have no doubt. From the East coast to the West coast, From Toronto to Nunavut , the freedom that is ours unites us all. Freedom has marked our history and our territory; it has marked our ability to travel and our ability to accept differences. It has helped create the spirit of adventure that I love above all in this country, this country where each and every one of us is able to participate fully in the ongoing task of building it. This includes participating in individual religions, taste and colors.
This country, as Canada, was founded by immigrants, I am a product of immigration and you to Jim are a product of immigration- and we need continued immigration to keep our economy thriving!
July 20, 2007 / 11:27
I used to live at Chinguacousy and Boivaird.
Sometimes, you just want to have neighbours with the same up-bringing as you.
That's all. That's not racism.
July 20, 2007 / 14:10
Seems to me, a mosque in Brampton shouldn't be alarming to anybody living in or near to Brampton. Really, it's par for the course.
I lived in Rexdale as a child/teen/early adult and saw how the demographic changed. Right or wrong, good or bad, it doesn't really matter - we all have options. If you don't like it, life it too short to hang around and complain. Just move and be done with it.
I loved the video of the dog's ass, btw. Had us all laughing over here.
July 20, 2007 / 16:26
I live in Brampton. About 5 km from where the mosque will be put up. I couldn't care less if they were going to put a mosque, a church, a synagogue, or any other religious building there. I don't want any of them. I'd rather they build something, that in my opinion, would be useful; like a hockey rink. In a hockey rink, people of all ethnicities, and religions come together to do one thing collectively.
July 21, 2007 / 11:43
You know, I understand Freddies point in this. Why such a huge Mosque? Why does that belong in a middle class area? MY parents on grand Island are going through the same sort of thing with their neighbors. The small local church as a huge plot of land that they are putting up for sale in the back yards of upper middle class homes. The Church is going no where mind you and so who is buying the plot? Verizon! They want to build a cell phone tower there to improve reception...Great idea but not in the backyards of middle class homes. And right next to a small church and across the street from a public elementary school.
Certain things should be build in certain places otherwise they look totally out of place. A huge mosque with all due respect to those who worship in it Im sure would look out of place in any residential area unless it was a residential area dominated by those who worship in it. Has the city of Brampton come up with figures of how many would worship there from the immediate area? Im sure the building would look nice and all but not in the neighborhood that fred described. This thing sounds like it belongs in a city landscape or out in the middle of the sticks in relative solitude.
July 23, 2007 / 09:55
Anyone want to go to a Muslim nation and build a Church or a synagogue?
Intolerance is a universal human fact. The reaction of non-Muslim residents of Brampton is no different than what can be expected from anywhere else in the world be it a church, a temple or whatever. Why do we expect that Canadians should be any different than any other people of any other nations. We are not. We cannot be. It is a human fact.
Personally if the mosque was being built in my backyard I would move.
July 23, 2007 / 11:50
Simply and well put by Paul. I think that anyone who thinks that these comments are racist are as bad as the Chileans claiming Canada is racist for their punk team clashing with police and getting tasered. Swampy, Irvine, Carrie Marta get over yourselves and stop arguing just for the sake of arguing.
Oakville had a similar thing happen when a rich British born man decided to build a castle right on lakeshore nestled amongst other houses off of the lakeshore. The people did not put up a fuss because he was British or even because he has a small chapel in the back yard. The homeowner's problems were the same as residents in Brampton. This structure was being built way to high and way too big. They felt like bramptonians, this would have an adverse affect on their property value, create unwanted attention to the area and once again just be too big so as to become an eyesore and stick out from the other houses.
It must be really easy for you folks to sit there in your pulpit and call people racist the minute they have a feeling or an opinion on something like this. I might not know but I'm sure none of you who sit there ready to cry racist are people that live in or near the area where this mosque is going to be built or near one this size. It's very easy to say all of you are racist because they have strong feelings on the situation it's another thing to try and understand where these people might be coming from. As for Fred being racist well to Marta you must be an absolute idiot if you think Fred is trying to spread hate amongst communities or to incite malevolence towards other cultures. Then there is Irvine
who talks without making a valid point, and just decides to argue because he can not because he's any different from the people against the mosque. Laugh all you want chuckles.
Paul makes a very good point of trying to place a small church even the size of an outhouse in the Muslim world would set them on fire, let alone one that dwarfs all other buildings in the area. Some of you might say there are Christian churches in the Muslim world and yes there are. Take Egypt for example and Egyptian Christians are continually excluded from jobs are often ridiculed and seen as less than human, because of their Christian background. Their churches have to be small so as not stand out, because this could incite the surrounding Muslim population.
Like many people have already stated here the problem first and foremost is the location of this church and it's size. Residents would be pissed off if it was a Mormon church or a Jewish synagogue or even a Buddhist temple that was being built to such a size. So Irvine read into that as much as you want.
July 23, 2007 / 14:28
1- Please define and let us know, who are real Canadians?
2-If you think that you are real Canadain as your grandfather came from xyz country 60 years ago then what about guys on up north who are upset that "real Canadians" grabbed our Canada from us???
3- Can immigrant's next generation (after 60 yrs) claim that we are Canadaians now yahoooo !! (like current "real Canadians")?
and just for fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qc2UH_kle0
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September 3, 2010 / 07:12
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