March 13, 2007 / 10:14
FREDDIE!
This is an AWESOME video! It's what I (and others) have been saying for years, but has been suppressed by the media and the "scientific" establishment. VERY surprised that the BBC would air this, but THRILLED that they did.
Thanks for spreading the word!!!
March 13, 2007 / 10:55
Freddie, a Martin Durkin doc is a dangerous reference to support your equally dangerous views.
From Wikipedia:
One scientist featured, Carl Wunsch, said he had been "swindled" and "completely misrepresented" by the programme, calling it "grossly distorted" and "as close to pure propaganda as anything since World War Two." Durkin denies that Wunsch was misrepresented.
The film is critical of the concept of man-made global warming, and claims that the current state of knowledge on the topic has numerous flaws. Only those skeptical of man-made global warming were interviewed (barring Wunsch, who said he was misled) and there was no attempt to present the most widely held scientific opinion on climate change except in the context of counter-arguments. Channel 4, preempting the controversy, said, "It is essentially a polemic and we are expecting it to cause trouble, but this is the controversial programming that Channel 4 is renowned for."
There are schools in Kansas that wish to teach creationism instead of the theory of evolution. My point is, there are always going to be sceptics when it comes to science, but your position on this issue deeply concerns me.
There's enough overwhelming evidence to convince me the Kyoto Protocol isn't an over reaction but an under reaction. Should we doubt it because two nations refuse to ratify it? I hope not...
March 13, 2007 / 11:35
No, we should doubt it because there is NO scientific consensus on this. At that doesn't just come from this documentary. Any sources I cite you will find fault with, just as I do with yours. And perhaps that's the point.....
The "overwhelming evidence" and the mainstream view also used to be that the sun revolved around the earth and that the world was flat, but as it turns out, the minority voice new better...
March 13, 2007 / 11:37
...Oops! make that "KNEW better".....global warming has obviously affected my typing!
:)
March 13, 2007 / 12:31
I'll bet David Suzuki would love to win an oscar, right Freddie? ;)
So it seems that both sides have their ulterior motives. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of all the hysteria. Common sense says we don't have to use the car all the time, and if that prevents damage to the atmosphere, then it's a good thing.
March 13, 2007 / 16:09
You know I would agree with this if it were right. Can anyone dispute that Humans have been dumping pollutants into the atmosphere at an alarming rate? Take a look out any window in a major city in July and loook at all the smog. To say that we are not or cannot have any effect on our planets climate I would say is false. I Would say that we are. eVery car that you drive behind is spewing out those gases. Every smoke stack you see, every building is spewing those gases into the air. I would be in agreement that Kyoto is not doing enough. And to say that it would cost too much to do more I would ask you this, what is the cost of not doing anything or not enough? Most scientists do agree that it is CO2 and human activity that is changing our climate. What they are having trouble with is how to reverse or minimize what is happening. Those who doubt it I believe are those who are unwilling to change their behaviors/lifestyles to help improve our enviroment.
The changes are minimal when you consider ther benefits.
March 13, 2007 / 16:25
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png
Here is a graph of CO2 concentrations in the air dating back thousands of years. IT has never gone above 280 ppm, since 1900 it has gone up and over 320 ppm. Each spike in CO2 corresponds with a warming trend, each dip in CO2 corresponds with a cooling trend (ice age) Ice ages have been caused by 1-2 degree changes in global temperature. What will 2 or more degrees on the other side of it do? Thats the concern There are higher concentrations of CO2 now that are causing warming and that cannot be disputed. The CO2 rises since 1900 correspond with the start of the industrial revolution (HUMANS)
March 13, 2007 / 20:58
Excellent video. I also suggest reading "Taken by Storm" by Christopher Essex and Ross McKitrick. It goes into more depth regarding the problem of models and natural warming/cooling cycles, while also discussing the problems with the calculated "global temperature statistic". It also points out that even IF global warming were caused by CO2, why the Kyoto Protocol is still a bad idea.
In response to Mike of March 13/16:09, nobody is denying that industry causes pollution, but rather that CO2 is not pollution. Smog is not made of CO2.
March 13, 2007 / 22:48
In response to Tee...much of the pollutants in Smog help CO2 and the other Greenhouse gases accelerate the Global warming process. That is why a metropolitan area during the summer will be typically warmer than surrounding rural areas because those gases are holding the heat into the city.
CO2 levels right here and now are higher than they have ever been. We have also had 20 of the 21 hottest years on record have occured in the last 25 years. It is no coincidence that the last 25 years have seen CO2 levels going well beyond where they have ever been in the last 300,000 years.
Its science, and if we are debating this science then why not start questioning doctors and health care providers. They are scientists too. Why not question all of science?
I come from a science background and after reading books to support and arguements against, the ones for present more numbers and measurments than the ones against. The ones against dismiss it as a cycle. Well then tell me how long of a cycle. They act as if they just want to brush it off and not discuss it. Give me some numbers to prove that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and prove that it does not contribute to warming the earth....
March 14, 2007 / 10:02
Mike:
Are you REALLY asking us Global Warming Agnostics to prove it's not happening?
(a.k.a. "prove to the court that you don't beat your wife")
I'm asking you to prove it IS happening, which you (not just you) have not done sufficiently.
I really loved the "I would agree with this if it were right" argument. VERY persuasive. What you're really saying is "You're wrong because I say you're wrong".
Oh, well, that settles it then. (That's exactly what the media does and what I object to.)
All I'm saying is that I doubt the human effect on warming the planet. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong. I'm saying your arguments are not convincing enough and I THINK you are wrong. But, NO ONE knows...and that's the entire point.
That being said, I DO recycle, I DO try to conserve gas and buy more fuel efficient cars and I DO support reducing pollution--in a sound, reasonable and economical manner.
But not Kyoto.
March 14, 2007 / 11:53
Kyoto has somehow been lumped in with other "liberal" buzzwords. It's been politicized to death, unfortunately.
We already know the truth has a liberal bias. Right, Tee?
March 14, 2007 / 19:58
To Mike, what you are describing is the phenomenon of urban warming rather than global warming. In the early 90's, many of the more remote weather stations closed (due to the recession and huge debts of the West, and the collapse of the USSR), thus giving more prominence of urban centres in the calculation of the "global temperature statistic".
If you want numbers, read "Taken By Storm," Christopher Essex is a professor of statistics at UWO.
To Toronto Mike,
#1, I'm a liberal, in the Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson, Wilfred Laurier, Friedrich Hayek sense.
#2, Truth has to be proven through scientific experimentation, not incomplete computer models and unaudited statistics.
March 15, 2007 / 12:11
I find the number of Mike's in this discussion confusing.
Hey, other Mike, how about switching to Michael?
March 17, 2007 / 16:13
More Proof? No I am not just describing urban warming this article gives me a little more support. Remember, it is global warming, while we here in the Buffalo/Toronto Area have been dogged by a really cold snap from mid January to March the rest of the globe has been making up for this cold we have been getting. It has been the warmest December to February on record since records were kept in the 1880s. Read the article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070316/lf_afp/usweatherclimate_070316133745
July 21, 2008 / 13:43
Global warming could be caused by the sun? What a bizarre idea! Right?
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Below is the BBC documentary called the Global Warming Swindle that was aired on British TV last week.
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